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September 21 2021 2.18am

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 14 Sep 21 11.27pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64

Show me this "mantra that those who die within 30 days of covid often died of something else" which I posted endlessly. As I keep saying to you, stop making up stuff.

You (and others) have questioned the idea and notion that 'died within x days' of positive covid test is any useful metric whatsoever. I'm highlighting that now apparently 'dying within three months' of vaccination is somehow vitally important to you. Have the honesty to stick by what you say, rather than act like a 'fine every example of' time suck.

Quote I haven't attacked you as a poster, but you have attacked me, as a poster, frequently.


This is an outright lie. You have repeatedly attacked me in a personal way and in fact sought to even with little actual disagreement just to point score. Even your reply to my first message here, which was perfectly sensible was "Well, true to form, you say nothing here". You have actually written several posts about what a nasty and terrible human being you believe I am. All rather perplexing to me. No doubt you've forgotten all about those too.

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 14 Sep 21 11.33pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64

How about you answering my initial question. Rather than modifying your replies. And I'll put it as plainly as I can, so that you can comprehend.

Should children have the final say about receiving/refusing the vaccine if their parent/guardian disagrees with their decision.

How difficult is that?

You really need to wind your neck in pal. It's you that gets aggressive, as evidenced by the card. Stop making s*** up when you don't like what is posted.

Well it's certainly difficult for you to understand apparently, as you search for further non existent ways to conjure up a problem out of nothing. I modified nothing and made it perfectly clear:

"as a sensible balance and compromise to a low risk virus (for kids at least) needing the approval of 'both' child and parent before going ahead would be the most sensible move."

Therefore my preference would be for vaccination to go ahead if both parent and child agree for it to.


Maybe in your imagination I'm getting aggressive but clearly in reality that has not happened. I'll thank you however to not demonstrate such anger and use expletives when you talk to me. It's not exactly the hallmark of a calm man. Stop looking for disagreement when there isn't even any.

 

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View Tim Gypsy Hill '64's Profile Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 14 Sep 21 11.35pm Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay


This is an outright lie. You have repeatedly attacked me in a personal way and in fact sought to even with little actual disagreement just to point score. Even your reply to my first message here, which was perfectly sensible was "Well, true to form, you say nothing here". You have actually written several posts about what a nasty and terrible human being you believe I am. All rather perplexing to me. No doubt you've forgotten all about those too.

Where are these posts? Stop making it up.

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 14 Sep 21 11.37pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64

Every time I hear that someone has died on the news, they always seem to say "has died within 28 days of testing positive of covid-19" without saying what they actally died from. Scary.

Yes, how scary. Almost as scary as saying that there have been '1632 deaths within 3 months of receiving the vaccine.' Best not get the vaccine then, since it's clearly not safe. Oh wait, too late you already did *sad face*.

Edited by BlueJay (14 Sep 2021 11.38pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 14 Sep 21 11.50pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

I don't particularly disagree with this, being that the risk is so small.

My issue was mainly with the idea of a think of the voiceless children! take when the poster thought that parents could decide that the child is vaccinated, but suddenly did away with that whole outlook the moment it became clear that children could actually decide to get vaccinated on their own volition. Principles shouldn't be instant throw aways based on preferred outcome.

I'd say in this case, as a sensible balance and compromise to a low risk virus (for kids at least) that needing the approval of 'both' child and parent before going ahead would be the most sensible move.

It might be a compromise but at such low risk I don't think a 15 year old's opinion is equal to their parent's.

Given the parent is held as responsible for the child in so many other ways by the state I find it quite amazing that it takes this stance.

However, this is me musing and not an attack. I recognise that you are also uncomfortable with how things currently stand.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Sep 2021 11.52pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 15 Sep 21 12.01am Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays



It might be a compromise but at such low risk I don't think a 15 year old's opinion is equal to their parent's.

Given the parent is held as responsible for the child in so many other ways by the state I find it quite amazing that it takes this stance.

However, this is me musing and not an attack. I recognise that you are also uncomfortable with how things currently stand.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Sep 2021 11.52pm)

I don't disagree, but it's essentially the 'same difference'. As in under a system where both have to agree, if the child wanted it but parent didn't it wouldn't go ahead.

And yes, I don't think government should be rushing out a vaccine in a demographic where it's not really going to improve the situation. I'd possibly make exceptions in the small minority of children with specific health issues but that's about it.

Also, it pays to consider that kids have been more social than most groups throughout all of this and so logically vast numbers of them have already had covid. Vaccinating them becomes even more pointless with that in mind.

At this stage, especially with numbers quite stable despite life being largely normal again, I think our main prerogative should be gradually dismantling any covid specific laws and rules that remain.


 

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View Tim Gypsy Hill '64's Profile Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 15 Sep 21 12.10am Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Well it's certainly difficult for you to understand apparently, as you search for further non existent ways to conjure up a problem out of nothing. I modified nothing and made it perfectly clear:

"as a sensible balance and compromise to a low risk virus (for kids at least) needing the approval of 'both' child and parent before going ahead would be the most sensible move."

Therefore my preference would be for vaccination to go ahead if both parent and child agree for it to.


Maybe in your imagination I'm getting aggressive but clearly in reality that has not happened. I'll thank you however to not demonstrate such anger and use expletives when you talk to me. It's not exactly the hallmark of a calm man. Stop looking for disagreement when there isn't even any.

Oh crikey. I didn't mean to offend you with the word s***.

But this is how you carry on. And do so with other posters you disagree with. Not so much debate the issue, but divert the debate with irrelevance and outrage until you wear them down. If you stopped making stuff up you'd have nothing. That's an attack by the way. Not just me disagreeing with you.

In your first reply to my question, you said that I was incorrect about a statement. Which I wasn't. You then failed to answer my question, merely stating.... well...nothing that I hadn't already asked. Do the children have the final say? You said that they do, and then go on to say that I am inferring that, which is wrong. So which is it? Am I wrong to ask the question. As the Government have given the go ahead, are the kids to have the final say? Or should the parents have their input, as ultimately, they are the ones who live with any adverse consequences.

Or is it unnecessary to vaccinate them in the first place (my preference). Not that my preference matters now. So I really think that this can't happen. To do so would mean breaking families. Literally.

If there is a disagreement who has the say so? Try having an opinion. Just this once.

Edited by Tim Gypsy Hill '64 (15 Sep 2021 12.11am)

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 15 Sep 21 12.18am Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64

As the Government have given the go ahead, are the kids to have the final say? Or should the parents have their input, as ultimately, they are the ones who live with any adverse consequences.

Or is it unnecessary to vaccinate them in the first place (my preference). Not that my preference matters now. So I really think that this can't happen. To do so would mean breaking families. Literally.

If there is a disagreement who has the say so? Try having an opinion. Just this once.

Edited by Tim Gypsy Hill '64 (15 Sep 2021 12.11am)



I'll omit your relentless and wild insults and get straight to the question as I don't intend to humour such nonsense.

At the present time the government appear to be saying that children will get the final say. Funnily enough, I'm not the government, so this has little to do with me. I have however already repeatedly answered the question you appear to believe I'm somehow holding back on (with regard to how I personally feel it should be handled).

"as a sensible balance and compromise to a low risk virus (for kids at least) needing the approval of 'both' child and parent before going ahead would be the most sensible move."


The above clearly means that my personal view is that if there is disagreement the child should not be vaccinated.

That however does not appear to be the route that government has chosen.

Edited by BlueJay (15 Sep 2021 12.23am)

 

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View Tim Gypsy Hill '64's Profile Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 15 Sep 21 12.38am Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay



I'll omit your relentless and wild insults and get straight to the question as I don't intend to humour such nonsense.

At the present time the government appear to be saying that children will get the final say. Funnily enough, I'm not the government, so this has little to do with me. I have however already repeatedly answered the question you appear to believe I'm somehow holding back on (with regard to how I personally feel it should be handled).

"as a sensible balance and compromise to a low risk virus (for kids at least) needing the approval of 'both' child and parent before going ahead would be the most sensible move."


The above clearly means that my personal view is that if there is disagreement the child should not be vaccinated.

That however does not appear to be the route that government has chosen.

Edited by BlueJay (15 Sep 2021 12.23am)

Thank you. My view is the same about not vaccinating the child if the parent disagrees. The problem is, because the government has stated that they will "assess" whether a child is capable of making an informed and rational choice. And that will go against the wishes of some parents. Hence it is wrong.

Nobody ever thought (I hope) that children would be vaccinated against their will.

ps I do like your take on "relentless and wild insults". Never had you down as a 'flake.

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 15 Sep 21 12.44am Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64

Thank you. My view is the same about not vaccinating the child if the parent disagrees. The problem is, because the government has stated that they will "assess" whether a child is capable of making an informed and rational choice. And that will go against the wishes of some parents. Hence it is wrong.

I'm glad that you've calmed down enough to see that I didn't even disagree with your point in the first place.

Quote
ps I do like your take on "relentless and wild insults". Never had you down as a 'flake.

I was more unnerved by your approach than annoyed. Each to their own. I appear to have navigated your episode. That's good enough for me.


 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 15 Sep 21 12.57am Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Putin in self-isolation due to COVID cases in inner circle - [Link]

Sounds painful!

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 15 Sep 21 12.59am Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64

I maintain that the vaccine will not be safe for years, if ever (you forgot that bit).

Enjoy your upcoming booster shot.

 

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