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June 5 2020 2.40pm

Sir Keir Starmer

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View the.universal's Profile the.universal 07 May 20 1.41pm Send a Private Message to the.universal Add the.universal as a friend

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

Starmer's shadow Health secretary is good, Jon Ashworth, but he had his 'health and social care' shadow on C4 last night , Liz Kendall - I thought it wud be revealing that someone given that responsibility at this time must be someone Starmer either rates really highly or trusts completely - she was very disappointing though, just parroting the party line and answering specific questions with meaningless generalizations - disappointing, thought she might be one of those engaging bright sparks, she was more like a New Labour robot - all compliance and f*ck all else, I suppose you need a few of those but she was clearly under orders and it showed, too much of that cud well turn voters off - too much control and propaganda, other posters pointed out some bizarre looking Starmer appointments, though I thought those posters were too selective with their evidence, this is the first thing I'd call a negative re Starmer's leadership.

Itís incredibly subjective who is good or bad. As per your post, this seems mainly judges on how well someone comes across, rather than an objective analysis of outputs. Personally, I donít think it really matters who is in the shadow cabinet (or the cabinet for that matter - chancellor excepted). If it really made a difference they wouldnít keep reshuffling them into totally different roles every couple of years.

 


Vive le Roy!

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 07 May 20 4.31pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Also, to be fair to Labour, there are simply very few political points worth scoring at the moment. The national mood is, at this moment in time at least, seemingly all about a sense of pulling together rather than the usual fisticuffs of political brawling.

Now of course once it all blows over and the serious questions can not only be asked but also qualified answers given, then it will be a different kettle of fish but for the time being, Starmer is probably getting far more right than wrong.

And let us not forget that as matters stand Johnson is probably the most secure politicians in the Western World. Huge majority, no internal opposition worthy of being labelled as such and with no risk of any kind of election for well in excess of 4 and half years.

In short, he can do whatever he wants. Starmer needs to pick his battles and timing is crucial. Has to play the long, long game here with his biggest issue in the next 12-18 months being those within his own party. Johnson can simply ignore him but those behind him will be looking to wield a variety of knives to stab him with. And it is going to get vicious on that front.

 

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View DanH's Profile DanH Flag SW2 07 May 20 4.50pm Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

Also, to be fair to Labour, there are simply very few political points worth scoring at the moment. The national mood is, at this moment in time at least, seemingly all about a sense of pulling together rather than the usual fisticuffs of political brawling.

Now of course once it all blows over and the serious questions can not only be asked but also qualified answers given, then it will be a different kettle of fish but for the time being, Starmer is probably getting far more right than wrong.

And let us not forget that as matters stand Johnson is probably the most secure politicians in the Western World. Huge majority, no internal opposition worthy of being labelled as such and with no risk of any kind of election for well in excess of 4 and half years.

In short, he can do whatever he wants. Starmer needs to pick his battles and timing is crucial. Has to play the long, long game here with his biggest issue in the next 12-18 months being those within his own party. Johnson can simply ignore him but those behind him will be looking to wield a variety of knives to stab him with. And it is going to get vicious on that front.

Your political posts are always a good read Matov. Nothing else to add. Stand down etc.

 


Tw@tter:

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 07 May 20 6.19pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

Also, to be fair to Labour, there are simply very few political points worth scoring at the moment. The national mood is, at this moment in time at least, seemingly all about a sense of pulling together rather than the usual fisticuffs of political brawling.

Now of course once it all blows over and the serious questions can not only be asked but also qualified answers given, then it will be a different kettle of fish but for the time being, Starmer is probably getting far more right than wrong.

And let us not forget that as matters stand Johnson is probably the most secure politicians in the Western World. Huge majority, no internal opposition worthy of being labelled as such and with no risk of any kind of election for well in excess of 4 and half years.

In short, he can do whatever he wants. Starmer needs to pick his battles and timing is crucial. Has to play the long, long game here with his biggest issue in the next 12-18 months being those within his own party. Johnson can simply ignore him but those behind him will be looking to wield a variety of knives to stab him with. And it is going to get vicious on that front.

Momentum have to be unliberated for him to succeed.
Joe public will like him if his manifesto and ideas are written by him. They will see through ones that are written by a n other.

 

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View ex hibitionist's Profile ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 07 May 20 6.40pm Send a Private Message to ex hibitionist Add ex hibitionist as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

Your political posts are always a good read Matov. Nothing else to add. Stand down etc.

a good read but I think he's overrated Johnson's security and underrated Starmer's problems - huge majority and they all know he's a good thing to duff up Boris.

 

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View ex hibitionist's Profile ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 07 May 20 6.51pm Send a Private Message to ex hibitionist Add ex hibitionist as a friend

Originally posted by the.universal

Itís incredibly subjective who is good or bad. As per your post, this seems mainly judges on how well someone comes across, rather than an objective analysis of outputs. Personally, I donít think it really matters who is in the shadow cabinet (or the cabinet for that matter - chancellor excepted). If it really made a difference they wouldnít keep reshuffling them into totally different roles every couple of years.

if you'd seen the interview you might be as subjective as me, I was speaking more in terms of up and comers and future leaders - like Lawson, Lamont, Mellor and Major all started off as chief secretary to the treasury - certain appointments can be revealing, with the care home crisis I was interested to see who he chose to speak for the issue, the shadow health sec Ashworth is the one caught on the phone saying Corbyn was a disaster pre the election, he has to peddle the party bullsh*t but says pertinent intellligent things every time I see him, the other was just talking off a script, Starmer's obviously, and it wasn't very convincing nor the first time, so I hope as a Labour voter that I'm wrong and it's not a revealing appointment.

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 07 May 20 7.39pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

a good read but I think he's overrated Johnson's security and underrated Starmer's problems - huge majority and they all know he's a good thing to duff up Boris.


Johnson has a 'majic' about him. The special sauce. Teflon. And those MP's around him know that. Who could replace him?

He took decisive action against the Tory Rebels who tried to scupper Brexit. No pissing about, bang. All gone. And managed to lead his party to an incredible victory. 80 seat majority with new MP's in seats that even 5 years ago would have never been considered as Tory targets. A lot of people within the Conservative Party owe a hell of a lot to him now.

On his own benches, where is the opposition to him? The big beasts who could harm him? His position is unassailable as matters stand and his polling is incredible.

He can propose any legislation he wants and it sails through. Simple maths tells you that.

Of course nothing is concrete and a week is a long time in politics as they say but, and I am no Johnson fan, the man is perhaps the strongest placed leader since say Blair. And even then, there are no rival camps. Johnson does not have a Gordon Brown breathing down his neck.

As Starmer, I am not underrating his problems. He has all sorts of s*** coming his way from his own side in the next 18 months and that is going to get f***ing messy. Everything is currently on hold due to Covid but the Corbynites are not going away. And to be honest, Starmer needs the likes of Monumentum pissing out of the tent rather than in. They put a lot of bodies on the streets in elections and are an actual asset in many, many ways. Their efforts were instrumental in 2017 and to be fair, they were once again a leading force in 2019. Of course that went tits up for Labour but that was primarily due to the second referendum insanity.

And the s*** around that is unreal. Bored people enough already about what happened but it was incredible that the likes of Starmer pushed for a policy that guaranteed Labour could not win an election. You have to ask why.

Edited by Matov (07 May 2020 7.41pm)

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 07 May 20 10.24pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Iíve said before I think Matov could write this stuff for money. Could probably adjust styles for the audience/readership.

 


COYP

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 08 May 20 6.32am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

a week is a long time in politics as they say but, and I am no Johnson fan, the man is perhaps the strongest placed leader since say Blair. And even then, there are no rival camps. Johnson does not have a Gordon Brown breathing down his neck.

As Starmer, I am not underrating his problems. He has all sorts of s*** coming his way from his own side in the next 18 months and that is going to get f***ing messy.

Rishi Sunak has performed well in his public appearances although there haven't been many of them. Dominic Raab has also done well as Boris's understudy and seems to be a decent bloke but like Starmer he lacks the personal charisma that is needed to win elections

 

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View serial thriller's Profile serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 08 May 20 11.20am Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

In the midst of all the drama, one decision made by Starmer last week is, I think, incredibly significant.

He came out and renounced Labour's previous position on Kashmir, which was to condemn the Indian government's actions there.

Now it is clear he did so to appease Indian Labour voters, many of whom didn't vote for Corbyn specifically because of this reason.

This may seem incredibly trivial, but actually, it is a clear indication of his political instincts, and even as a sceptic of his, it surprised me.

Kashmir is one of the largest human rights issues in the world. People have been arrested without trial, communication has been blacked out, and the Indian military have been shown to be committing numerous atrocities throughout the region.

Now you could argue that it isn't Labour's position to take a stand on these things and winning power is more important than far off conflicts. But remember, Starmer was a human rights lawyer. He, more than most, will know what is happening in Kashmir, and his decision to ignore it must have been done in spite of his knowledge.

It raises the question: if the human rights lawyer is willing to overlook human rights abuses, what does he actually stand for? Until that is answered, no number of breezy dispatches of Johnson at PMQs is likely to win poeple over.

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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View croydon proud's Profile croydon proud Flag croydon 08 May 20 1.27pm Send a Private Message to croydon proud Add croydon proud as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Rishi Sunak has performed well in his public appearances although there haven't been many of them. Dominic Raab has also done well as Boris's understudy and seems to be a decent bloke but like Starmer he lacks the personal charisma that is needed to win elections
Adecent bloke who wanted to abandon the minimum wage so they could pay people less than £7,50 an hour? Great chap, just the kind we need in these challanging times!

 

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View the.universal's Profile the.universal 08 May 20 1.46pm Send a Private Message to the.universal Add the.universal as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Rishi Sunak has performed well in his public appearances although there haven't been many of them. Dominic Raab has also done well as Boris's understudy and seems to be a decent bloke but like Starmer he lacks the personal charisma that is needed to win elections

Do you think performing well in public appearances equates to good performance? I think the two are increasingly conflated, rightly or wrongly. Example being the Chief Medical Offer who would seem to be a good fit for the job, considering heís a virologist. But he was mugged off for having a crap haircut and terrible presentation skills.

(He does need a better haircut, to be fair.)

 


Vive le Roy!

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