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October 19 2021 6.34am

Covid vaccine

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 02 Jan 21 11.51am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

What if it prevented transmission but made
1 in 1000 a jaffa ?

Iíll take that bullet having reached the stage whereby such issues are purely theoretical.
Personally Iíd get injected with Clattenburgís DNA if it meant the pubs reopening.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 02 Jan 21 12.09pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

What if it prevented transmission but made
1 in 1000 a jaffa ?

I am glad you asked that.

What makes you think that it might?

This is precisely the reason I get angry. There have been social media assertions that this is a genuine risk. Where is the proof that it is?

[Link]

Is this a question you ask yourself before trying anything new? If not, then I suggest that this is misinformation originally planted to discourage people from taking the vaccine.

Note, however, that there is strong reason to believe that catching COVID may indeed make you a jaffa, at least for a while

Impairment of spermatogenesis was observed in COVID-19 patients, which could be partially explained as a result of an elevated immune response in testis. Additionally, autoimmune orchitis occurred in some COVID-19 patients. Further research on the reversibility of impairment and developing treatment are warranted.

[Link]

In the end we need to consider the least worst scenario. If we ever find evidence that the vaccine has negative side effects on fertility would those effects outweigh the benefits of avoiding COVID.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 02 Jan 21 12.15pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Why do you plant lies in otherwise reasonable posts?

Do you think this is ĎThe Unbelievable Truthí?

I have recommended vitamin D as a precaution, on the basis that is what CCUs including ITUs do as soon as people arrive with COVID-19.

You state things like they are facts when they are not.

You make claims that you are not qualified to make.

You have to make it clear that it is just your opinion based on your own reasoning.

Giving people vitamin D on arrival is quite reasonable because it reduces the chance of a deficiency in patients that could impact on their recovery. That is not to say that it is some sort of miracle cure as you have previously implied.

Anyway, we basically agree on this subject and I have way more important things to be thinking about right now so byeeeee.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 02 Jan 21 12.43pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Youíre right it is an unknown and is being actively spoken of as an unknown by all medical advisors. Trying to tell people otherwise is untruthful and to say that people might die if you do not have the vaccine yourself is at best melodramatic and at worse coercive nonsense.

The people who should be having the vaccine are the old and vulnerable. Coercing staff who may not want the vaccine for any number of reasons is just plain wrong.

Iíll repeat the stats for healthy people under 60. Deaths of less than 400 out of a total of 70,000+

This is not about whether you should have the vaccine, itís about the rights of individuals to have a choice.

I will not change my opinion on this until:

1) the vaccine is proved 100% safe and impact free on matters such as fertility.
2) it is proven that to have the vaccine prevents you carrying and transmitting the virus to others.

Edited by Eaglecoops (02 Jan 2021 10.50am)

Good for you, well done on being macho.

Has it occurred to you that viruses are very good at multiplying. When they multiply they mutate. And then life is like a box of chocolates.

In whom will these mutations happen do you suppose?

Edited by Mapletree (02 Jan 2021 12.44pm)

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 02 Jan 21 12.53pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Youíre right it is an unknown and is being actively spoken of as an unknown by all medical advisors. Trying to tell people otherwise is untruthful and to say that people might die if you do not have the vaccine yourself is at best melodramatic and at worse coercive nonsense.


I'm not trying to tell people that being vaccinated stops the ability to pass it on. I'm saying there is a good rationale for that being the case (it is with several other viruses), and as such it's being explored as a distinct possibility. It makes sense for nurses and doctors for instance to get vaccinated if it may result in them all being available to treat the public rather than being staff outbreaks or 'potentially' passing it on to patients. It's a time sensitive situation. We don't have time to hang around until you personally feel comfortable with everything, or eventually say 'oh go on lets do that then' after the consequences of delaying vaccinating has already happened.

Quote The people who should be having the vaccine are the old and vulnerable. Coercing staff who may not want the vaccine for any number of reasons is just plain wrong.

Iíll repeat the stats for healthy people under 60. Deaths of less than 400 out of a total of 70,000+

Yes, people in those age groups are clearly much less likely to die from covid but many thousands of them have been admitted to hospital in a bad way over the course of the year. When hospitals are at full capacity (as some are now) patients cannot be treated and people who wouldn't otherwise die do. Also, you're looking at this in an individualistic sense. In one as yet unfounded scenario there is a negative impact to the individual. In the other where it limits the individual passing it on, that stops staff shortages due to covid, passing it on to people who enter hospital with other illnesses etc. The knock on impact can be to hundreds of people and it's certainly not 'melodramatic' to call it a potentially life or death situation.


Quote
This is not about whether you should have the vaccine

I will not change my opinion on this until:

1) the vaccine is proved 100% safe and impact free on matters such as fertility.
2) it is proven that to have the vaccine prevents you carrying and transmitting the virus to others.

You could just as well argue that nobody should be given the vaccine because it's new and we can't know it's 100% safe. It's all about weighing up the potential positive or negative impact. I'm not saying care staff or hospital staff shouldn't be able to refuse the vaccine, but wake up to the fact that there may well pan out to be serious consequences for countless others as result of their decision. That is a perfectly possible outcome and I'm happy to go with perspectives I think will lower the bodycount.


Edited by BlueJay (02 Jan 2021 3.55pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Jan 21 12.54pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Can someone give Maple a vaccine for his saviour complex.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 02 Jan 21 1.25pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

I am glad you asked that.

What makes you think that it might?

This is precisely the reason I get angry. There have been social media assertions that this is a genuine risk. Where is the proof that it is?

[Link]

Is this a question you ask yourself before trying anything new? If not, then I suggest that this is misinformation originally planted to discourage people from taking the vaccine.

Note, however, that there is strong reason to believe that catching COVID may indeed make you a jaffa, at least for a while

Impairment of spermatogenesis was observed in COVID-19 patients, which could be partially explained as a result of an elevated immune response in testis. Additionally, autoimmune orchitis occurred in some COVID-19 patients. Further research on the reversibility of impairment and developing treatment are warranted.

[Link]

In the end we need to consider the least worst scenario. If we ever find evidence that the vaccine has negative side effects on fertility would those effects outweigh the benefits of avoiding COVID.

Easy tiger. If you read back I agree with your opinions on the vaccine and will have mine at the earliest opportunity. Geez calm down Kermit. It was a question to the poster who wants 100% guarantee.

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 02 Jan 21 1.49pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Easy tiger. If you read back I agree with your opinions on the vaccine and will have mine at the earliest opportunity. Geez calm down Kermit. It was a question to the poster who wants 100% guarantee.

The issue being, there are no 100% guarantees, and the focus of unfounded risks to the individual could delay a process (vaccinating front line staff) which may well end up being responsible for saving lives or at the very least keeping the health services from buckling yet further. The potential upside is staggering when compared to the possible down and it's helpful when studies and first hand perspectives are posted. Of course I don't need to tell you any of this though, as you've been a very sensible voice on the topic from day one!


Edited by BlueJay (02 Jan 2021 3.01pm)

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 02 Jan 21 2.04pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Perfect, so you thought you should jump the gun and get in early by utilising your vast medical knowledge of the virus and itís possible side effects. I really hope there are zero side effects for younger people who donít necessarily need to take it.

But you're talking as if the only potential negative consequence is to the individual. You're entirely blotting out the not unlikely scenario that if it does stop or limit people passing covid on, the decision not to vaccinate staff in care homes, and more so hospitals , would almost certainly result in grave consequences for others. You call that 'melodramatic' , while expecting thoughts on as yet unfounded side effects to take precedence.

If Maple is somehow to blame if there is consequence to his staff, then equally if it does turn out that vaccinating stops or reduces the ability to pass covid on, then it becomes you that's been propagating a message that endangers others. It's a time sensitive situation, we can't all mull things over for a year. For those dealing with the elderly or vulnerable, the rational and selfless decision with much more potential upside is clearly getting vaccinated. It's down to the individual of course, but the realities of the front line are far more grim than that of the armchair and so I can well understand Maple's advocacy and passion.

Edited by BlueJay (02 Jan 2021 3.38pm)

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 02 Jan 21 2.54pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Easy tiger. If you read back I agree with your opinions on the vaccine and will have mine at the earliest opportunity. Geez calm down Kermit. It was a question to the poster who wants 100% guarantee.

I wasn't saying I was angry with you Cryrst, quite the opposite. I know you to be thoughtful and caring, albeit generally to be completely in the wrong

I did mean it when I said I am glad you asked, it gets this stuff out in the open. You can change the 'yous' in my post to 'ones' if you like.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 02 Jan 21 2.58pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Can someone give Maple a vaccine for his saviour complex.

I'll have a pint of Wandle please

I would historically have said Young's but it's been ruined in recent years.

That is a vaccine, right? It's just one that needs multiple doses

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 02 Jan 21 3.00pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

I wasn't saying I was angry with you Cryrst, quite the opposite. I know you to be thoughtful and caring, albeit generally to be completely in the wrong

I did mean it when I said I am glad you asked, it gets this stuff out in the open. You can change the 'yous' in my post to 'ones' if you like.

I take that as a complimentary smack in the solar plexus

 

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