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February 8 2023 6.41am

Post EU World

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View nead1's Profile nead1 Flag 01 Jan 23 8.01pm Send a Private Message to nead1 Add nead1 as a friend

WE is completely correct; the Council - of which Britain was a member and had influence when were in the EU - determines foreign policy through all member country PM's/Presidents; likewise, the Commission proposes and manages budgets - again approved by the Council.
You might not like what WE says, but he is well informed and accurate.

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 01 Jan 23 8.53pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by nead1

WE is completely correct; the Council - of which Britain was a member and had influence when were in the EU - determines foreign policy through all member country PM's/Presidents; likewise, the Commission proposes and manages budgets - again approved by the Council.
You might not like what WE says, but he is well informed and accurate.

The Council is not elected, it is made up of appointees from the various EU countries. Tony Benn, hardly a little Englander, was on the EU Council of Ministers and described it as virtually powerless with all decisions made by the EU Commission which met in secret.
As he said, when you can't dismiss by voting out those that make the laws that govern you, then you do not live in a democracy.

[Link]

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 01 Jan 23 10.47pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by nead1

WE is completely correct; the Council - of which Britain was a member and had influence when were in the EU - determines foreign policy through all member country PM's/Presidents; likewise, the Commission proposes and manages budgets - again approved by the Council.
You might not like what WE says, but he is well informed and accurate.

Thank you.

There are many who make claims about the EU which are simply untrue. It was a primary driver for Brexit and sad to see these claims still being made.

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 01 Jan 23 10.58pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Of course, now we are not in the EU we are now able to control our own destiny.

And what a good job we are doing.

Particularly environmentally its refreshing to be able to walk in our own sewage for an extra 41 years now we are free of pesky EU directives.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 01 Jan 23 11.21pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

The Council is not elected, it is made up of appointees from the various EU countries. Tony Benn, hardly a little Englander, was on the EU Council of Ministers and described it as virtually powerless with all decisions made by the EU Commission which met in secret.
As he said, when you can't dismiss by voting out those that make the laws that govern you, then you do not live in a democracy.

[Link]

You are demonstrating your ignorance. The Council is composed of the heads of state, or heads of government of the EU members, plus a Chairman and the President of the Commission, neither of whom has a vote. The Council has evolved since its inception.

We vote in Governments. They choose who leads them. Together with all the other members they define the political direction and priorities of the EU. The Commission then carry them out.

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 02 Jan 23 8.49am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You are demonstrating your ignorance. The Council is composed of the heads of state, or heads of government of the EU members, plus a Chairman and the President of the Commission, neither of whom has a vote. The Council has evolved since its inception.

We vote in Governments. They choose who leads them. Together with all the other members they define the political direction and priorities of the EU. The Commission then carry them out.

We did not elect the people that make EU laws. The MEPs that we elected did not have the power to make law. MEPs cannot define the political direction of the EU, they could not propose or draft law. Did you listen to Tony Benn - he wasn't even allowed to submit a document!

Edited by georgenorman (02 Jan 2023 8.51am)

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 02 Jan 23 9.31am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

We did not elect the people that make EU laws. The MEPs that we elected did not have the power to make law. MEPs cannot define the political direction of the EU, they could not propose or draft law. Did you listen to Tony Benn - he wasn't even allowed to submit a document!

Edited by georgenorman (02 Jan 2023 8.51am)

The EU does not function in that way and it would be impossibly clumsy to try to have an elected parliament with legislative powers. Rather than criticise what it isn’t, and was never intended to be, try to look at what it is and what it delivers.

Concentrating only on the “we don’t elect them” moan doesn’t deliver anything. It puts no bread on the table. The EU members have agreed to delegate responsibilities so that collectively they are stronger together than any one of them would be alone. It’s a bit like Wilf trying to play Man City on his own.

The stupidity of the Brexit “Little England” argument can be seen now for the sham it always was. Farage is the wanna be King who has no clothes.

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 02 Jan 23 10.07am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The EU does not function in that way and it would be impossibly clumsy to try to have an elected parliament with legislative powers. Rather than criticise what it isn’t, and was never intended to be, try to look at what it is and what it delivers.

Concentrating only on the “we don’t elect them” moan doesn’t deliver anything. It puts no bread on the table. The EU members have agreed to delegate responsibilities so that collectively they are stronger together than any one of them would be alone. It’s a bit like Wilf trying to play Man City on his own.

The stupidity of the Brexit “Little England” argument can be seen now for the sham it always was. Farage is the wanna be King who has no clothes.

I know "it does not function in that way", that's the point - it is undemocratic. The EU members have agreed to delegate responsibility! it's like the elected House of Commons giving their powers to the House of Lords.
Surprised you think the the likes of Tony Benn were Little Englanders, you really should listen to what he said.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 02 Jan 23 10.25am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

I know "it does not function in that way", that's the point - it is undemocratic. The EU members have agreed to delegate responsibility! it's like the elected House of Commons giving their powers to the House of Lords.
Surprised you think the the likes of Tony Benn were Little Englanders, you really should listen to what he said.

If you know, what has been the point of your barrage of posts? It was never intended to be democratic in the way a national parliament is and anyone arguing that it should, or even could, be is deluded and just wasting time. The question is not that. It is whether it delivers better outcomes than it not existing.

Tony Benn was an arrogant fool in so many ways. Sincere, but misguided. His conclusions on the EU are not shared by me. His conclusions on many things are not shared by me. Especially his contention that your conscience is above the law when making decisions.

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 02 Jan 23 11.15am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If you know, what has been the point of your barrage of posts? It was never intended to be democratic in the way a national parliament is and anyone arguing that it should, or even could, be is deluded and just wasting time. The question is not that. It is whether it delivers better outcomes than it not existing.

Tony Benn was an arrogant fool in so many ways. Sincere, but misguided. His conclusions on the EU are not shared by me. His conclusions on many things are not shared by me. Especially his contention that your conscience is above the law when making decisions.

Hurrah - a glimmer of understanding at last.

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 02 Jan 23 12.17pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

It is not relevant that the Commission is perfect democratically but that it is capable of delivery to a bloc of 27 nations.

Democracy does not mean that things work, as we are discovering more each day.

The UK is not particularly democratic in practice, has been dropping down the democracy table and badly needs reform.

Where else do you find anything so ridiculous as a House of Lords.

I had a lot of time for Tony Benn, think of Concorde for example,
but at other times he did disappear into a cloud of irrelevance.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 02 Jan 23 12.38pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

I just noticed that Croatia has just become the 20th country to join the euro and Schengen treaty.

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned before.

I was in Croatia during the spring a lovely country and hopefully this will not have an adverse impact on them.

 


One more point

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