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 steeleye20  Croydon 15 Apr 23 11.13pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Whereas you are bright as a button. A total legend and well suited to destroying the logic of the foolish. Well done you. A crypto looney.
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| The Dolphin 16 Apr 23 6.58am |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
You are wrong I drink champagne and smoke cigars all day, just like Churchill. He would never have done anything so dumb as brexit, neither would Thatcher. Or any other sensible person. Thatcher disliked the EU and would have hated their money wasting.
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| georgenorman 16 Apr 23 7.04am |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Whereas you are bright as a button. A total legend and well suited to destroying the logic of the foolish. Well done you. You are kind of a combination of them both - apart from the pretending to be a Conservative bit.
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| georgenorman 16 Apr 23 8.51am |
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Shouldn't you be working on your Robert Mugabe scrapbook?
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| Mapletree Croydon 16 Apr 23 9.03am |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
You are kind of a combination of them both - apart from the pretending to be a Conservative bit. That’s me. A raving Tory that never doubts the Party or the government.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 16 Apr 23 9.13am |
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Originally posted by The Dolphin
Thatcher disliked the EU and would have hated their money wasting. Remainers will point out that Churchill was in favour of a European Union / body and made speeches about the idea post war. What they wont say is that Churchill did not include the UK in that suggestion. His idea was three great democratic bodies The US, the British Empire and a European Organisation. He never envisaged Britain joining the EU.
One more point |
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cryrst  The garden of England 16 Apr 23 9.15am |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
That’s me. A raving Tory that never doubts the Party or the government. There is a difference between what you say about doubts; and knowing what’s coming if it changes to the other lot. Wait and see as you will get your wish and then wish you hadn’t made it!
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| steeleye20 Croydon 16 Apr 23 11.18am |
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Originally posted by The Dolphin
Thatcher disliked the EU and would have hated their money wasting.
The single market - Margaret Thatchers great free trade agreement.
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Teddy Eagle  16 Apr 23 11.35am |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
The single market - Margaret Thatchers great free trade agreement. When I saw how the European Union was developing, it was very obvious what they had in mind was not democratic. In Britain, you vote for a government so the government has to listen to you, and if you don't like it you can change it. Tony Benn The Treaty on European Union takes away from national Parliaments the power to set economic policy and hands it over to an unelected set of bankers. Jeremy Corbyn
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| steeleye20 Croydon 16 Apr 23 11.41am |
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Brexit caps 40 years of conservative failure, yet Starmer could not bring himself to oppose it. The problem with brexit is, that even if everybody comes round and admits the disaster, there is no at present no real route back, as the UK wanted to 'get things done' without regard to the consequences, typical of the tory years of short-termism. The idea that tories and their followers have that their policies are in the interests of business investment and productivity, however do they make that out all of those score practically zero.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Apr 23 12.03pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
When I saw how the European Union was developing, it was very obvious what they had in mind was not democratic. In Britain, you vote for a government so the government has to listen to you, and if you don't like it you can change it. Tony Benn The Treaty on European Union takes away from national Parliaments the power to set economic policy and hands it over to an unelected set of bankers. Jeremy Corbyn The problem with sound bites like these are that, whilst the appeal to an already convinced audience, they obscure the reality of an increasingly complex world. Our current system is only theoretically democratic. In practice it doesn’t actually listen to us. It listens to some of us. The EU system is necessarily more complicated but it is also theoretically democratic. The real question is therefore not which system is more democratic! Direct democracy on which we vote on every issue is that! The question is which system delivers the best outcomes whilst retaining ultimate authority in the hands of the people. If you shoot yourself in the foot because you believe your theory is better than another theory you only hurt yourself. Brexit being the prime example.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Teddy Eagle 16 Apr 23 12.30pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The problem with sound bites like these are that, whilst the appeal to an already convinced audience, they obscure the reality of an increasingly complex world. Our current system is only theoretically democratic. In practice it doesn’t actually listen to us. It listens to some of us. The EU system is necessarily more complicated but it is also theoretically democratic. The real question is therefore not which system is more democratic! Direct democracy on which we vote on every issue is that! The question is which system delivers the best outcomes whilst retaining ultimate authority in the hands of the people. If you shoot yourself in the foot because you believe your theory is better than another theory you only hurt yourself. Brexit being the prime example. And when they said those things the convinced audience was of Labour voters. Corbyn became pro-EU out of nothing more than cynicism which was the point rather than some convoluted explanation on different types of democracy.
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