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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 16 May 21 9.01pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It's you with the waffle!

If evidence existed but has been destroyed, it still existed. If it had been found and properly recorded then it's existence is a fact. If it was only hearsay, or remains undiscovered, then it is only theoretical.

It's this which is used by the conspiracy theorists to push their agendas. They use the uncertainty to make claims of truth without any actual evidence using exactly the type of reasoning you are employing.

You can justify almost any idea on this basis and if people are prepared to believe whatever you say you can easily fool them. Trump being the most obvious recent example.

You pushed an unproven conspiracy theory on Hol for years. I told you years ago that it would come to nothing and that's exactly what happened.

You really aren't one who can criticise others for theories without evidence.

You had none yourself.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 May 2021 9.02pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Jimenez's Profile Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 16 May 21 11.49pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

That's the message that the right have been telling themselves for decades. That minorities will vote for them once they integrate.

The problem though is that the stats say otherwise and have been consistent and stable. Minorities will nearly always vote majority left and against the majority group (I know of only the Castro hating Cubans in the US who are around fifty fifty...with the new generation moving more left). So it only differs in extent depending upon the group.

It's such a reliable indicator that it dictates candidate selection in minority areas.

My contention is that real conservatives need to stop believing that, if they only do this....or they only do that it'll mean they will convince this or that group to vote in the majority for them.

I say look at the stats.

Don't be so sure. You'd be amazed the amount of people I know from Ecuador, Honduras, Colombia, Belize & other South & Central American countries who loathe the Democrats & perhaps surprisingly were/are very Pro Trump.

 


Pro USA & Israel

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 17 May 21 1.14am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Jimenez

Don't be so sure. You'd be amazed the amount of people I know from Ecuador, Honduras, Colombia, Belize & other South & Central American countries who loathe the Democrats & perhaps surprisingly were/are very Pro Trump.

That's because you aren't on the left. But look at the statistics. Excluding the cubans, Hispanics vote 30 percent right wing, I tip my hat to those 30 percent but it isn't enough.

Don't get me wrong, it would be great.....but look at those countries themselves. The uncomfortable reality is that despite being poor both central and south America are generally left wing and socialist.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 May 2021 2.08am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 17 May 21 10.18am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It's you with the waffle!

If evidence existed but has been destroyed, it still existed. If it had been found and properly recorded then it's existence is a fact. If it was only hearsay, or remains undiscovered, then it is only theoretical.

It's this which is used by the conspiracy theorists to push their agendas. They use the uncertainty to make claims of truth without any actual evidence using exactly the type of reasoning you are employing.

You can justify almost any idea on this basis and if people are prepared to believe whatever you say you can easily fool them. Trump being the most obvious recent example.

That is virtually what I just said.

Understand. A 'conspiracy theory' is either true or not. There is no certainty attached to the term. It is, and always was, a phrase used to undermine a claim or theory. Using the phrase does not prove or disprove anything.

If there was evidence to prove vote rigging then, as one might expect, it has been destroyed or made unavailable by those who perpetrated it.

What else would you expect?

You really do excel yourself with idiotic arguments at times.

If there is still evidence of such a crime, then the media will do their very best to either ignore it or discredit it. You see this regularly.

The fact that there was great resistance to any investigation tells its own story.


 

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View Lombardinho's Profile Lombardinho Flag London 17 May 21 7.25pm Send a Private Message to Lombardinho Add Lombardinho as a friend

So not the savage, violent storming of the Capitol we were led to believe...

[Link]

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 17 May 21 7.28pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Lombardinho

So not the savage, violent storming of the Capitol we were led to believe...

[Link]

The media manipulation of this event was nothing short of lies and propaganda.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 17 May 21 7.54pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The media manipulation of this event was nothing short of lies and propaganda.

But people were waving flags and everything.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 17 May 21 8.18pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

But people were waving flags and everything.

And wearing MAGA hats....god knows, it was practically 9/11.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 17 May 21 8.41pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

You pushed an unproven conspiracy theory on Hol for years. I told you years ago that it would come to nothing and that's exactly what happened.

You really aren't one who can criticise others for theories without evidence.

You had none yourself.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 May 2021 9.02pm)

If you are referring, as I suspect you are, to Trump, or his team's, involvement with the Russians and their support in the 2016 election it is very far from a conspiracy theory.

Mueller indicted 34 individuals and 2 Russian businesses. These included close associates of Trump like Manafort, Stone and Flynn. The first two pleading guilty and going to jail, Flynn escaping it with a last minute withdrawal of the case in what had all the aroma of a dubious fix.

Mueller did not, despite Trump's repeated claims, "exonerate" him. What he said was “If we had had confidence that” President Donald Trump “clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.” That might be nuanced, but it really is pretty damning.

It was the then AG Barr's instruction that a sitting President cannot be indicted that seems to have stopped him being charged and for the matter to be left to the political arena of impeachment rather than the Courts. We know what happened there.

The evidence still exists, and it doubtless will be used, when the time is appropriate, and can be done safely.

Conspiracy theories are evidence free. The Steele dossier and then the Mueller report, uncovered that evidence. Some of it remains out of view for security reasons, but enough confirmation has been given by trustworthy people to have no doubt at all that it exists.

Seeking to describe things like this as a conspiracy theory is an attempt to whitewash criminal behaviour for political reasons. That Trump would do it is par for his course. Not though for those who value truth above lies.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 17 May 21 8.58pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If you are referring, as I suspect you are, to Trump, or his team's, involvement with the Russians and their support in the 2016 election it is very far from a conspiracy theory.

Mueller indicted 34 individuals and 2 Russian businesses. These included close associates of Trump like Manafort, Stone and Flynn. The first two pleading guilty and going to jail, Flynn escaping it with a last minute withdrawal of the case in what had all the aroma of a dubious fix.

Mueller did not, despite Trump's repeated claims, "exonerate" him. What he said was “If we had had confidence that” President Donald Trump “clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.” That might be nuanced, but it really is pretty damning.

It was the then AG Barr's instruction that a sitting President cannot be indicted that seems to have stopped him being charged and for the matter to be left to the political arena of impeachment rather than the Courts. We know what happened there.

The evidence still exists, and it doubtless will be used, when the time is appropriate, and can be done safely.

Conspiracy theories are evidence free. The Steele dossier and then the Mueller report, uncovered that evidence. Some of it remains out of view for security reasons, but enough confirmation has been given by trustworthy people to have no doubt at all that it exists.

Seeking to describe things like this as a conspiracy theory is an attempt to whitewash criminal behaviour for political reasons. That Trump would do it is par for his course. Not though for those who value truth above lies.

From those who can honestly be regarded as on the left you are the clearest example of a conspiracy theorist who has ever posted on these boards from when I've been here.

I'll state it once again....and again, it was what I predicted to you years ago. There was zero evidence presented to connect Trump to the lies you and the Democrats pushed for years.

Once again, zero evidence to connect Trump to the claims made.....Even Trump's own lawyer who ended up turning against him had nothing regarding Russia/Trump and illegal collusion. All those people you mentioned....who would have sung like a canary (which is why they went after them) had nothing.

As for the The Steele dossier....do you mean that Clinton funded scam that has been shown to have nothing in it other than claims and what could be confirmed didn't have Trump doing anything illegal.

Mueller's commentary was just as much of a nothing burger as I predicted it would be. He tried to justify a deliberately politically driven investigation to distract and tangle up the Trump administration in an façade which cost the US taxpayer many wasted millions....over ten If I remember correctly and Mueller said whatever he could while not actually saying Trump was guilty of anything....Anyone who watched him give evidence saw that he was very very careful not to make the kind of claims that liars you believed made.

So when you come on here call Hrolf and others a 'conspiracy theorist'. Realise that there are many who laugh at your lack of self awareness.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 May 2021 9.16pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 17 May 21 9.00pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

That is virtually what I just said.

Understand. A 'conspiracy theory' is either true or not. There is no certainty attached to the term. It is, and always was, a phrase used to undermine a claim or theory. Using the phrase does not prove or disprove anything.

If there was evidence to prove vote rigging then, as one might expect, it has been destroyed or made unavailable by those who perpetrated it.

What else would you expect?

You really do excel yourself with idiotic arguments at times.

If there is still evidence of such a crime, then the media will do their very best to either ignore it or discredit it. You see this regularly.

The fact that there was great resistance to any investigation tells its own story.


There was no resistance to investigations though. That is just another conspiracy theory. Courts and their Judges investigated and repeatedly found there weren't cases to answer or that any miscalculations were simply errors that had no impact on results.

People went out of their way, many of them responsible and hard-working Republican officials and lawmakers, to try to reassure and show that democracy and the rule of law had prevailed. Nothing though satisfied those who had been wound up to believe a lie.

That you repeat that lie now just demonstrates how invasive this technique can be.

There seems to me to be an obvious distinction in credibility between an unproven, but reasonably possible, explanation of an event and the type of things generally described as conspiracy theories. The latter might stitch together some real events as their foundation but will then add layers of improbabilities designed to reach conclusions which support specific prejudices.

Those who believe in conspiracy theories won't, of course, either see or believe that. That's the nature of their prejudices dominating reason.

 

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View DanH's Profile DanH Flag SW2 17 May 21 9.06pm Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays



From those who can honestly be regarded as on the left you are the clearest example of a conspiracy theorist who has ever posted on these boards from when I've been here.

I'll state it once again....and again, it was what I predicted to you years ago. There was zero evidence presented to connect Trump to the lies you and the Democrats pushed for years.

Once again, zero evidence to connect Trump to the claims made.....Even Trump's own lawyer who ended up turning against him had nothing regarding Russia/Trump and illegal collusion. All those people you mentioned....who would have sung like a canary (which is why they went after them) had nothing.

Mueller's commentary was just as much of a nothing burger as I predicted it would be. He tried to justify a deliberately politically driven investigation to distract and tangle up the Trump administration in an façade which cost the US taxpayer many wasted millions....over ten If I remember correctly and Mueller said whatever he could while not actually saying Trump was guilty of anything....Anyone who watched him give evidence saw that he was very very careful not to make the kind of claims that liars you believed made.

So when you come on here call Hrolf and others a 'conspiracy theorist'. Realise that there are many who laugh at your lack of self awareness.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 May 2021 9.03pm)

We had, and continue to have, unrepentant QAnon loons posting all sorts of nonsense on here. You honestly think people take you seriously?

 


Tw@tter:

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