So you're splitting people into racial groups (as 'black lives matters' does to an extent) but going well beyond that and saying that 'all that matters' in life is making good genetic procreation choices within your own racial group (because that is how 'you are defined')? But that in doing so you're not 'against other groups'.

This implies you believe that procreating with a different race is a very negative thing and should be avoided. So you're against people taking the knee (which is fair enough), but are so far beyond that, you cannot stand the idea of procreation between races? How do you view those around you with mixed race families? What do you think they would feel about what you're saying about their families? You appear to be painting these people as some kind of tribeless genetic missteps, rather than people of family and dignity no different from you or me.

I prefer Hrolfs take. There's more than genes and luck. Work ethic, determination, it all factors in. Where the will is there all of these things can be worked on massively, in much the same way that a person can physically transform. In football for instance it's unlikely that the 'potentially' best footballer has ever even kicked a ball professionally. And such achievement clearly isn't race specific anyway. Of course genes are a factor in aspects of life but it's limiting and inaccurate to imagine that's the full picture. It should be potential (realised or wasted) that we view in others, not an analysis or assumptions of their genetic code. It appears rather egotistical to imagine that your own genes will convey more ability to achieve or excel than anyone elses anyway. It may well be that the opposite is true and you're latching onto an idea of what you feel you represent rather than a reality.

Edited by BlueJay (21 Feb 2021 2.23pm)

I think we have to accept that humans are 'gene vehicles' and that nature and nurture both play a part in behaviour. Genes certainly are the determining force in what we are capable of be it learned or inherited, and the only thing that really matters when you cut through human complexity, is our ability to survive and produce children in a changing environment.

Does this have any baring on race relations? Well only when one group are considered inferior by another.
The truth is that we are all different with varying skills and physical traits. The question is not so much who is superior but who is most adaptable and fertile. This might not appeal to the intellectual mind but it is really all that matters, if indeed you think anything does ultimately.
Of course, Humans themselves are really of little consequence, but their genes live on for many generations.
Am I happy that my genotype and phenotype will be absorbed into nothingness by the march of migration?

No. Although I will be dead, I think about the future and the plight of my descendants. Is that not the only thing that matters to a simple human mind beyond our own selfish little lives?
Should we just be totally nihilistic and say none of it matters?
Since White Europeans only make up around 10% of the world population, mass migrations and interbreeding with other 'races' will cause their eventual absorption and disappearance unless there is a conscious effort to remain separate. Ask the Neanderthal. Oh wait, you can't.
In the case of such separatism, it would not be based on some warped idea about racial superiority or purity but a practical way of allowing the 'White race' to exist at all in the future.
Of course no one will notice the White European disappear, in the same way that no one of the younger generations realises how much Britain has changed in the last 70 years. They only know what they are born into, but that still doesn't change the reality.

I certainly concur with your thoughts that we are all different with varying skills and physical traits. Certainly, it's undeniable that genetics play a part in who we become, but they are clearly only part of the picture. Most people putting their mind and efforts towards something can excel and make something of themselves and that is healthy and aspirational. Nurture, environment, personal motivation, it all factors in. I think that's a better message to propagate than some other beliefs (not you) that dance around calling and viewing other races inferior.

I'm certainly not detached or blind to changes through the generations, so can relate to your views on that. The pace of change can certainly be an issue, and I wouldn't personally care if we had zero immigration going forward. Beyond such measures though the country is what it is and people make the personal decisions that they make. I would never think to make bizarre inferences that two white people should think twice about procreating, so nor do I expect to read the same about others. I am naturally averse to the idea that the only important thing is to propagate genes within racial groups. Other peoples partnering decisions aren't particularly our business.

Well it is true that people can become 'better' with effort, but that just means that they are not already using the full abilities that their genes made them capable of.

Yes, and I would say that this true of most people. It's better for people to positively emphasise untapped potential and encourage achievement in all its forms, than to negatively fixate on what they imagine the genetics of said individuals mean. That is a very inadequate way of viewing others.

Though pertaining to this thread, football is a useful example of how varied genetically people can be and still achieve at the very highest level. As a passion an activity anyone can get involved in, it's a great leveller. How many Pelé's or George Best's never kicked a ball, or didn't have the dedication to stick with it. Genetics are only part of the picture. And much of life doesn't fall along simplistic and interpretative racial genetic lines. If we fail to see people beyond that, then quite simply we fail people.

I certainly respect him for being a black player highlighting this perspective. He's right to highlight that in isolation, it's a meaningless token gesture and over time is probably as likely to be a net negative the longer it goes on for. I dare say that he'd have much more practical and workable suggestions for how to improve our communities than a simple 'take the knee'.