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April 16 2021 12.56pm

Jesurun Rak-Sakyi

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 18 Mar 21 4.19pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglehamster

If we have matches remaining after hitting 40 points, wouldn't that be a golden opportunity to give some youngsters a try? I can't think of a reason why not but I expect Roy will.

Edited by Eaglehamster (18 Mar 2021 3.54pm)

Bubbles?

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 18 Mar 21 4.33pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglehamster

If we have matches remaining after hitting 40 points, wouldn't that be a golden opportunity to give some youngsters a try? I can't think of a reason why not but I expect Roy will.

I think it's Parish that won't want to relax after 40 points as he will be aware of the 1m per place on offer so will want to go all out to climb the table

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 18 Mar 21 4.34pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by chris123


Bubbles?

What has Michael Jackson's monkey got to do with it

 

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 18 Mar 21 5.33pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by Qwijibo

I'm assuming someone's already highlighted Mandela Egbo's move a few years ago. I can't remember who he plays for now? (poss in the US), but he never got going at Monchengladbach, literally played about one game.

We need to market ourselves better with young players. We should be a better option than Chelsea, and yet we are no more likely to play young prospects than they are.

In fairness, until recently our youth players were incomparable to Chelsea's, and we were never in a position to promote youth players as frequently. You only have to compare the impact Chelsea's youths had in the championship at Derby (Mount, Tomori), Wigan (James), Swansea and Villa (Abraham) to our loanees, failing so far to make any impression even at League One level.

Part of the investment in the academy seems to be to do better in the highly competitive youth market, and I agree that having a track record of promoting young players quickly is of course going to help the club attract the best players. I'm sure it will have occured to Abraham, Hudson-Odoi, Tomori and Loftus-Cheek that they would get a game with us, and not be cluttering up the bench or out on loan, which is what happened to them as soon as Chelsea were allowed to spend money again. In that sense we could, as you say, be the more attractive proposition in the hugely valuable and productive South London market.

Whilst it's great to have a good, nationally competitive youth team to promote from, I'm less sure about making the promotion of youth players central to the business plan, which is what would have to happen for us to promote the likes of Rak-Sakyi as quickly as he would like, and might get in Germany.

Firstly, nobody has ever been able to maintain the production of stellar players forever.

Southampton had a great crop over a three or four year period, with Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Walcott, Shaw, Lallana, Chambers etc, but these things go in cycles and the ones they rely on now just aren't all that good. Nobody will be paying tens of millions for their current crop, and it's been a very long time since they made that kind of profit. What happens to the business model then?

Secondly, do we want to be a nursery club?

Look at Dortmund, literally targeting he very best young players in the world. They will turn a handsome profit on Sancho, Haaland, Reyna, Bellingham etc, but at the same time, their team is further away from catching Bayern Munich than ever. They are a huge, historic club, playing in front of 80,000 people, and they seem to have become a nursery for richer clubs, including the one they are trying to catch. What's the point in that?

I'm sure it helped balance the books when Southampton sold so many great youth players as a League One or Championship side, but I can't really see how it helped develop their club once they were in the premier league. It didn't help West Ham back in the day either.


It is of course vital to develop more first team players if we want to get past the glass ceiling we have hit, and for the reasons I list above I hope we are uniquely placed to do so, but youth team players should compete with established senior players and new signings as part of a meritocracy. If that means losing a talented kid to German football, that's unfortunate but acceptable.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 18 Mar 21 5.56pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

In fairness, until recently our youth players were incomparable to Chelsea's, and we were never in a position to promote youth players as frequently. You only have to compare the impact Chelsea's youths had in the championship at Derby (Mount, Tomori), Wigan (James), Swansea and Villa (Abraham) to our loanees, failing so far to make any impression even at League One level.

Part of the investment in the academy seems to be to do better in the highly competitive youth market, and I agree that having a track record of promoting young players quickly is of course going to help the club attract the best players. I'm sure it will have occured to Abraham, Hudson-Odoi, Tomori and Loftus-Cheek that they would get a game with us, and not be cluttering up the bench or out on loan, which is what happened to them as soon as Chelsea were allowed to spend money again. In that sense we could, as you say, be the more attractive proposition in the hugely valuable and productive South London market.

Whilst it's great to have a good, nationally competitive youth team to promote from, I'm less sure about making the promotion of youth players central to the business plan, which is what would have to happen for us to promote the likes of Rak-Sakyi as quickly as he would like, and might get in Germany.

Firstly, nobody has ever been able to maintain the production of stellar players forever.

Southampton had a great crop over a three or four year period, with Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Walcott, Shaw, Lallana, Chambers etc, but these things go in cycles and the ones they rely on now just aren't all that good. Nobody will be paying tens of millions for their current crop, and it's been a very long time since they made that kind of profit. What happens to the business model then?

Secondly, do we want to be a nursery club?

Look at Dortmund, literally targeting he very best young players in the world. They will turn a handsome profit on Sancho, Haaland, Reyna, Bellingham etc, but at the same time, their team is further away from catching Bayern Munich than ever. They are a huge, historic club, playing in front of 80,000 people, and they seem to have become a nursery for richer clubs, including the one they are trying to catch. What's the point in that?

I'm sure it helped balance the books when Southampton sold so many great youth players as a League One or Championship side, but I can't really see how it helped develop their club once they were in the premier league. It didn't help West Ham back in the day either.


It is of course vital to develop more first team players if we want to get past the glass ceiling we have hit, and for the reasons I list above I hope we are uniquely placed to do so, but youth team players should compete with established senior players and new signings as part of a meritocracy. If that means losing a talented kid to German football, that's unfortunate but acceptable.

You overcomplicate this

Consider the investment as just that, an investment.

What return do we get on the capital we employ in our development structure.

Whether we use the financial returns on buying in experienced players, or take the benefit of good young players ourselves is neither here nor there. I assume we shall aim to do both.

I see it like Wenger's time. He just held Arsenal in the Premiership whilst investing in and paying for the new stadium. Minimised spend on players to just enough, then grew other parts of the club's infrastructure to give a big financial return in the longer run. Our development structure is probably the same, spend on it rather than new players for a while until it starts to pay off.

Dortmund is benefiting from its development infrastructure and I assume it makes a handsome return. The first team is quite simply a different issue. If it can benefit from development squad members then great but that is only one strand of contribution towards overall success.

 

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View Brasilian Eagle's Profile Brasilian Eagle Flag Londres 19 Mar 21 8.56pm Send a Private Message to Brasilian Eagle Add Brasilian Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

I don't hold to the myth that if Bostock had stayed with us he would have become a regular first team player and possibly even a great player.

It didn't work out at Spurs but he had plenty of opportunities elsewhere and has never been more than a 2nd or 3rd tier player.

Yes maybe he would have knuckled down we will never know. Patrick Bamford is a good example of a player who failed at Palace and Norwich but he found his way at boro and Leeds and has proved his point. Bostock could have done that but didn't.

Edited by Badger11 (17 Mar 2021 10.08am)

Bostock is 30 next year. He could be just what Hodgson is looking for by then!

 

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View Bexley Eagle's Profile Bexley Eagle Flag Bexley Kent 20 Mar 21 9.10pm Send a Private Message to Bexley Eagle Add Bexley Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by YT

West Germany....deutschmarks... I wonder if that pesky Berlin wall will be coming down any time soon?

&#128514;

 

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View akiisalegend's Profile akiisalegend Flag Croydon 20 Mar 21 10.54pm Send a Private Message to akiisalegend Add akiisalegend as a friend

The interesting thing I find with the academy and players wanting to leave is that I can't think of a single player in last 15-20 years that has left the academy before properly breaking into the first team that has gone on to be truly succesful and / or ahead of where palace are. Bostock, Hall, egbo, razak (sort of) and Robinson spring to mind to those that have left and there is obviously a fairly long list of those that have been highly rated, stayed for x years and then gone onto bigger things. Wonder if players know /realise / are told this

 

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