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April 10 2021 8.27pm

The Great Reset

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View croydon proud's Profile croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 02 Apr 21 8.26pm Send a Private Message to croydon proud Add croydon proud as a friend

Originally posted by Eden Eagle

Hi SW19

This is my take on it

a/ Johnson has already come out and said he sees the need for the domestic passport, there is considerable evidence that for the past few months they (HMG) have been looking to develop the software to have this in place. It is great news that already a number of MP’s have said they will oppose this and vote against this with the LD’s saying they, as a party, oppose so they will be getting my vote in the local elections.

It is clear that the majority of tory MP’s will follow the government line so will be likely to vote in favour.

b/ How would it work - well the model is already in existence in Israel where you need to show your digital ID to enter, for example, a bar, restaurant, shopping centre. Many will feel that this is ok (WE for example) however what they are blind to, in my opinion, is that once we start down this road it will lead to having to have whatever government mandated medicine (they are already talking about an annual booster) and without this entry will be denied. Like I said many will be, ignorantly, happy with this believing that it provides “freedom” but this is not my belief.

Do you really trust Johnson etc with this level of control over your day to day life? The man is a proven liar, cheat and wholly unsuited to a position of power (I say this as someone who, regrettably voted for him and was previously a lifelong conservative voter)

Once established it is just a small step to a CCP style social credit score where your access to a normal life is based on your score any dissent and your score reduces and suddenly you are unable to travel (for example)

The fact that Tony Blair supports it should be enough to put most sane people off the idea!

I am not anti-vax and I can understand that an international vaccine passport might be needed but I am very strongly against having to “show my papers” to go to Selhurst or to get a pint.

As I said others see no issue with this and that it their right but it is definitely not for me, nor is it a place that I want my children to live in.

Apologies for the long response - it is like a Bluejay note!

Great post Eden, especially your honesty in paragraph c, not many admit their mistakes on here.

 

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View croydon proud's Profile croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 02 Apr 21 8.30pm Send a Private Message to croydon proud Add croydon proud as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

You said you wernt bitter! Alum in your coffee?

Not bitter at the Uber drivers mate, they are just doing a hard job, bitter at a load of Eton toffs breaking the law and getting away with it, carving up tax payers money for themselves? You bet !

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 02 Apr 21 10.30pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

.

Edited by SW19 CPFC (02 Apr 2021 10.31pm)

 


said the rabid giraffe whilst brandishing his throbbing member of reason, and twas ever thus.

Did you know? 95% of people are morons.

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 02 Apr 21 10.32pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Eden Eagle

Hi SW19

This is my take on it

a/ Johnson has already come out and said he sees the need for the domestic passport, there is considerable evidence that for the past few months they (HMG) have been looking to develop the software to have this in place. It is great news that already a number of MP’s have said they will oppose this and vote against this with the LD’s saying they, as a party, oppose so they will be getting my vote in the local elections.

It is clear that the majority of tory MP’s will follow the government line so will be likely to vote in favour.

b/ How would it work - well the model is already in existence in Israel where you need to show your digital ID to enter, for example, a bar, restaurant, shopping centre. Many will feel that this is ok (WE for example) however what they are blind to, in my opinion, is that once we start down this road it will lead to having to have whatever government mandated medicine (they are already talking about an annual booster) and without this entry will be denied. Like I said many will be, ignorantly, happy with this believing that it provides “freedom” but this is not my belief.

Do you really trust Johnson etc with this level of control over your day to day life? The man is a proven liar, cheat and wholly unsuited to a position of power (I say this as someone who, regrettably voted for him and was previously a lifelong conservative voter)

Once established it is just a small step to a CCP style social credit score where your access to a normal life is based on your score any dissent and your score reduces and suddenly you are unable to travel (for example)

The fact that Tony Blair supports it should be enough to put most sane people off the idea!

I am not anti-vax and I can understand that an international vaccine passport might be needed but I am very strongly against having to “show my papers” to go to Selhurst or to get a pint.

As I said others see no issue with this and that it their right but it is definitely not for me, nor is it a place that I want my children to live in.

Apologies for the long response - it is like a Bluejay note!

Sooo - it’s not reallly a ‘domestic passport’ though is it. That’s sensationalist guff lapped up by the usual media suspects to gain clicks so they can talk about stasi Britain and county border checks and all that.

It’s a certificate on the NHS app or equivalent that you MAY need to show at large scale events such as festivals or football games to get in. Which, knowing the level of deficiency when it comes to government and anything digital will probably be insanely easy to counterfeit. Otherwise, such events won’t be able to be insured, and have a high chance of creating an outbreak in which case they will be fined or shut down. Without it? No more festivals. No more large scale events. In the short term anyway.

So I’d like to know what your solution is to that minor issue without some form of proof of vaccination.

Secondly you make reasonable points right up until you lob a clearly preconceived, and absolutely massive leap from nhs app to social credit score. I’m not saying that this won’t ever happen on a global scale but it will be many many years into the future. Sure China have been at it in one area of their country for ages but we simply don’t have the capabilities or the under population for this to be an option short to medium term. The government would get booted out of office.

Plus - this already happens now, Facebook have been doing it for years. When big tech really takes over then it will actually affect you outside more than just Facebook et al.

As for bumbler Johnson, who the PM is in this scenario is more or less irrelevant. I’d wager anyone in that position would be doing more or less the same thing - However, as you say, you voted for him so the ‘do you really trust’ like is somewhat galling.

Edited by SW19 CPFC (02 Apr 2021 10.33pm)

 


said the rabid giraffe whilst brandishing his throbbing member of reason, and twas ever thus.

Did you know? 95% of people are morons.

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 02 Apr 21 10.36pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

I agree with you but others will blindly follow. It's the back door way to national ID cards, for anyone that remembers that debate.

I do, and I still don’t get the issue with it. The majority of the population have either a drivers license, bank card, passport or all three.

Especially if you’re anti immigration.

And amusingly the republicans want it implemented to reduce the ethnic vote.

 


said the rabid giraffe whilst brandishing his throbbing member of reason, and twas ever thus.

Did you know? 95% of people are morons.

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 02 Apr 21 11.10pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend


Ethical considerations of vaccination passports.

[Link]

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Online Flag Chatham 03 Apr 21 5.22am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by croydon proud

Not bitter at the Uber drivers mate, they are just doing a hard job, bitter at a load of Eton toffs breaking the law and getting away with it, carving up tax payers money for themselves? You bet !

Its only because your not in a position to carve yourself a slice though CP. Do you really think that hmg purposely gave out contracts to their 'mates' or more logically the first people to offer what they needed,not wanted, needed. This in a time of such horror and potential death and pain that you wanted hmg to put money and ethics about spending it first. I will ask again though where is your negative on hmg spending billions on helping workers, some who don't need it or qualify (greedy bstards) the vaccines before any were passed or the fact that you and ma had a free vaccination. Many pay for a flu jab each year! After the event it is easy to criticise and BTW do you not think that behind the scenes boris is asking the same questions about the spend on ppe. He didnt personally sign these contracts. If you are asking many others are probably asking as well.

 

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View The Dolphin's Profile The Dolphin Flag 03 Apr 21 6.44am Send a Private Message to The Dolphin Add The Dolphin as a friend

I have no issue with a secure ID card that has my vacc cert on it.
There are a number of companies tendering for the vaccines passport right now but not one of them has the technology to make them either secure or trustworthy.
If the Gov't runs with any of them it will be waste of time and they will be open to serious abuse but sadly this Gov't is no different to previous ones in that someone says they can do it and the powers that be just let them loose.
Track and Trace is the latest example.
Done properly it would work just fine.

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 03 Apr 21 7.37am Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by The Dolphin

I have no issue with a secure ID card that has my vacc cert on it.
There are a number of companies tendering for the vaccines passport right now but not one of them has the technology to make them either secure or trustworthy.
If the Gov't runs with any of them it will be waste of time and they will be open to serious abuse but sadly this Gov't is no different to previous ones in that someone says they can do it and the powers that be just let them loose.
Track and Trace is the latest example.
Done properly it would work just fine.

Agreed. The chance of any digital ID system, simple or otherwise, being implemented properly by the government is close to zero. In fact, ANY digital system.

They’re even doing it again now with the NHS [Link]

This is why big tech is gaining more and more influence and power in an increasingly digital only world. Government trying to compete or effectively and efficiently trying to create systems like this is impossible.

Try to create a national programme for IT? Spent ten years and 10bn on it only for it to never see the light of day? Already done that mate. Perfect. Now I’ve got an idea for a proof of vaccine app...

 


said the rabid giraffe whilst brandishing his throbbing member of reason, and twas ever thus.

Did you know? 95% of people are morons.

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 03 Apr 21 8.31am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle


Ethical considerations of vaccination passports.

[Link]

We will probably require a vaccine passport to travel abroad as a requirement of the country we are going to visit and the UK should reciprocate. I have no problem with that lots of countries I have visited or intended to demand you are vaccinated against all sorts of things.

In fact I would use this technology to demand all people visiting the UK have been vaccinated against the key diseases not just COVID. In recent years illnesses such as TB has been on the rise and is almost exclusively imported and we have been ignoring it.

I do have a problem with being made to use a passport for going to the pub or a football match. This is a step too far and needs to be fought.


Edited by Badger11 (03 Apr 2021 8.32am)

 


One more point

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View Eden Eagle's Profile Eden Eagle Flag Kent 03 Apr 21 8.47am Send a Private Message to Eden Eagle Add Eden Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Sooo - it’s not reallly a ‘domestic passport’ though is it. That’s sensationalist guff lapped up by the usual media suspects to gain clicks so they can talk about stasi Britain and county border checks and all that.

It’s a certificate on the NHS app or equivalent that you MAY need to show at large scale events such as festivals or football games to get in. Which, knowing the level of deficiency when it comes to government and anything digital will probably be insanely easy to counterfeit. Otherwise, such events won’t be able to be insured, and have a high chance of creating an outbreak in which case they will be fined or shut down. Without it? No more festivals. No more large scale events. In the short term anyway.

So I’d like to know what your solution is to that minor issue without some form of proof of vaccination.

Secondly you make reasonable points right up until you lob a clearly preconceived, and absolutely massive leap from nhs app to social credit score. I’m not saying that this won’t ever happen on a global scale but it will be many many years into the future. Sure China have been at it in one area of their country for ages but we simply don’t have the capabilities or the under population for this to be an option short to medium term. The government would get booted out of office.

Plus - this already happens now, Facebook have been doing it for years. When big tech really takes over then it will actually affect you outside more than just Facebook et al.

As for bumbler Johnson, who the PM is in this scenario is more or less irrelevant. I’d wager anyone in that position would be doing more or less the same thing - However, as you say, you voted for him so the ‘do you really trust’ like is somewhat galling.

Edited by SW19 CPFC (02 Apr 2021 10.33pm)

Yes it is a domestic passport - the fact that you cannot see this does not make it any less true.

When I voted Conservative at the last election I do not remember the introduction of domestic digital passports being on their manifesto so not sure why you consider this galling.

Re your other points I do not want to go over them again - you clearly have your view on this and you appear to trust Johnson, Hancock & the rest of the tories so much more than I do so lets agree to disagree.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Online Flag Chatham 03 Apr 21 8.59am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Eden Eagle

Yes it is a domestic passport - the fact that you cannot see this does not make it any less true.

When I voted Conservative at the last election I do not remember the introduction of domestic digital passports being on their manifesto so not sure why you consider this galling.

Re your other points I do not want to go over them again - you clearly have your view on this and you appear to trust Johnson, Hancock & the rest of the tories so much more than I do so lets agree to disagree.

It wasn't but nor was a worldwide lethal epidemic which spreads like wildfire.

 

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