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April 10 2021 8.30pm

The Great Reset

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 03 Apr 21 9.40am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle


Ethical considerations of vaccination passports.

[Link]

This raises valid questions in a way that demands respect and consideration.

The principal of using vaccine verification as a way to open up travel and the economy is well made. We already use various types of ID in our daily lives without thinking about it so that ought not concern anyone.

The problem is those who might wish to be vaccinated but are unable to comply. Disadvantaging them would be unfair and divisive. So again it comes down to assessing the risks against the benefits.

I feel sure there is a way of finding a pragmatic roadmap (to use an overused term) to ensure that a balance is struck which enables confidence to grow without disadvantaging too many for too long.

I don't see anything set in stone but rather a flexible system being established which will be relaxed as we move forward. International travel must have a unified system, but our own internal one does not have to be. Something though will be introduced.

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 03 Apr 21 10.01am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

This raises valid questions in a way that demands respect and consideration.

The principal of using vaccine verification as a way to open up travel and the economy is well made. We already use various types of ID in our daily lives without thinking about it so that ought not concern anyone.

The problem is those who might wish to be vaccinated but are unable to comply. Disadvantaging them would be unfair and divisive. So again it comes down to assessing the risks against the benefits.

I feel sure there is a way of finding a pragmatic roadmap (to use an overused term) to ensure that a balance is struck which enables confidence to grow without disadvantaging too many for too long.

I don't see anything set in stone but rather a flexible system being established which will be relaxed as we move forward. International travel must have a unified system, but our own internal one does not have to be. Something though will be introduced.

I wouldnít have any problem with a card showing the information which could be shown as required but donít like the idea of some sort of digital equivalent.

 

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View Eden Eagle's Profile Eden Eagle Flag Kent 03 Apr 21 12.08pm Send a Private Message to Eden Eagle Add Eden Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

It wasn't but nor was a worldwide lethal epidemic which spreads like wildfire.

That might have been the case previously but it is certainly not that situation now so do not see the need for domestic digital passports.

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 03 Apr 21 1.54pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Sooo - itís not reallly a Ďdomestic passportí though is it. Thatís sensationalist guff lapped up by the usual media suspects to gain clicks so they can talk about stasi Britain and county border checks and all that.

Itís a certificate on the NHS app or equivalent that you MAY need to show at large scale events such as festivals or football games to get in. Which, knowing the level of deficiency when it comes to government and anything digital will probably be insanely easy to counterfeit. Otherwise, such events wonít be able to be insured, and have a high chance of creating an outbreak in which case they will be fined or shut down. Without it? No more festivals. No more large scale events. In the short term anyway.

So Iíd like to know what your solution is to that minor issue without some form of proof of vaccination.

Secondly you make reasonable points right up until you lob a clearly preconceived, and absolutely massive leap from nhs app to social credit score. Iím not saying that this wonít ever happen on a global scale but it will be many many years into the future. Sure China have been at it in one area of their country for ages but we simply donít have the capabilities or the under population for this to be an option short to medium term. The government would get booted out of office.

Plus - this already happens now, Facebook have been doing it for years. When big tech really takes over then it will actually affect you outside more than just Facebook et al.

As for bumbler Johnson, who the PM is in this scenario is more or less irrelevant. Iíd wager anyone in that position would be doing more or less the same thing - However, as you say, you voted for him so the Ďdo you really trustí like is somewhat galling.

Edited by SW19 CPFC (02 Apr 2021 10.33pm)

So if Georgia had insisted on this ID for people to vote there wouldnít have been any complaints.

 

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View croydon proud's Profile croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 03 Apr 21 4.21pm Send a Private Message to croydon proud Add croydon proud as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Its only because your not in a position to carve yourself a slice though CP. Do you really think that hmg purposely gave out contracts to their 'mates' or more logically the first people to offer what they needed,not wanted, needed. This in a time of such horror and potential death and pain that you wanted hmg to put money and ethics about spending it first. I will ask again though where is your negative on hmg spending billions on helping workers, some who don't need it or qualify (greedy bstards) the vaccines before any were passed or the fact that you and ma had a free vaccination. Many pay for a flu jab each year! After the event it is easy to criticise and BTW do you not think that behind the scenes boris is asking the same questions about the spend on ppe. He didnt personally sign these contracts. If you are asking many others are probably asking as well.

Yes. I think they gave out contracts to their mates for sure, no better time to make bank than in a national crisis, this is something they do learn at Eton! They overpaid to mates companies that they probably have shares in,set up a company in hong kong to buy ppe from a banker with a dog food business- how does that work? You got to stop defending them mate, if that was Jeremy Corbyn and dianne abbott doing that stuff you would be all over it! We need strong leardership in a crisis, not a panic buying cronyism fill your boots fiasco! As for my having my covid jab, it wasn"t exactly free mate, thats why i pay national insurance!

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 03 Apr 21 5.38pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Sooo - itís not reallly a Ďdomestic passportí though is it. Thatís sensationalist guff lapped up by the usual media suspects to gain clicks so they can talk about stasi Britain and county border checks and all that.

Itís a certificate on the NHS app or equivalent that you MAY need to show at large scale events such as festivals or football games to get in. Which, knowing the level of deficiency when it comes to government and anything digital will probably be insanely easy to counterfeit. Otherwise, such events wonít be able to be insured, and have a high chance of creating an outbreak in which case they will be fined or shut down. Without it? No more festivals. No more large scale events. In the short term anyway.

So Iíd like to know what your solution is to that minor issue without some form of proof of vaccination.

Secondly you make reasonable points right up until you lob a clearly preconceived, and absolutely massive leap from nhs app to social credit score. Iím not saying that this wonít ever happen on a global scale but it will be many many years into the future. Sure China have been at it in one area of their country for ages but we simply donít have the capabilities or the under population for this to be an option short to medium term. The government would get booted out of office.

Plus - this already happens now, Facebook have been doing it for years. When big tech really takes over then it will actually affect you outside more than just Facebook et al.

As for bumbler Johnson, who the PM is in this scenario is more or less irrelevant. Iíd wager anyone in that position would be doing more or less the same thing - However, as you say, you voted for him so the Ďdo you really trustí like is somewhat galling.

Edited by SW19 CPFC (02 Apr 2021 10.33pm)

Half the adult population has already had the vaccine by June / July only those who can't and the refusniks will be left. So why do we need to show a passport to go into a pub etc.

I am all in favour of a travel one and would extend it beyond COVID to ensure people coming here especially from outside of Europe / USA are vaccinated against things like TB, Typhoid etc.

A domestic passport is a bridge too far for me.

 


One more point

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Online Flag Chatham 03 Apr 21 7.42pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by croydon proud

Yes. I think they gave out contracts to their mates for sure, no better time to make bank than in a national crisis, this is something they do learn at Eton! They overpaid to mates companies that they probably have shares in,set up a company in hong kong to buy ppe from a banker with a dog food business- how does that work? You got to stop defending them mate, if that was Jeremy Corbyn and dianne abbott doing that stuff you would be all over it! We need strong leardership in a crisis, not a panic buying cronyism fill your boots fiasco! As for my having my covid jab, it wasn"t exactly free mate, thats why i pay national insurance!

Im Defending the fact that speed was of the essence not that it could be mates. If labour had been in power and got the ppe extra quick time as hmg I would never slate the action. It is overpay and im sure questions are being asked.there will be a full enqiry from conception to actions to where the line is drawn. If it comes to fruition that it was a set up then I'm in your camp. I don't though beleive it was. Panic yes, on purpose no. Lives were saved so money well spent imo. Fill your boots though has happened by many many people of all politics and social status. Pointing at one potential is really playing the man not the ball. Let's wait for the enquiry and then discuss from there which is the ensible thing to do.we are very close to getting to the end now and I for one am asstressed as you about the whole bloody thing.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 03 Apr 21 8.02pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Half the adult population has already had the vaccine by June / July only those who can't and the refusniks will be left. So why do we need to show a passport to go into a pub etc.

I am all in favour of a travel one and would extend it beyond COVID to ensure people coming here especially from outside of Europe / USA are vaccinated against things like TB, Typhoid etc.

A domestic passport is a bridge too far for me.

It's not what you or I need. It's what the venues need to successfully open after such a difficult year.

Whilst you, and probably many others, would be happy to go to the pub, and even happier to attend outdoor events like football or festivals if the unvaccinated were also there, not everybody would be.

So if the motivation is wholly to get the economy up and running asap then it will be commercial pressure which drives the decision.

It may not have to last too long and allow exemptions for those unable to yet be vaccinated rather than those who refuse, but something will be done.

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 03 Apr 21 8.05pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Half the adult population has already had the vaccine by June / July only those who can't and the refusniks will be left. So why do we need to show a passport to go into a pub etc.

I am all in favour of a travel one and would extend it beyond COVID to ensure people coming here especially from outside of Europe / USA are vaccinated against things like TB, Typhoid etc.

A domestic passport is a bridge too far for me.

Itís not a domestic passport though is it

It will be left to the discretion of pubs and other commercial enterprises as to what practices they want to employ. Some of the bigger groups have already said they have no interest in such a policy. As mentioned itís large scale gatherings that in the short term will need to have something in place as they are ripe petri dishes for break outs.

And yes, come late summer most of this will be irrelevant anyway as most people will have us the jabs. Itís a temporary measure to get the economy going and moving back towards normality - again, no one is explaining to me what the alternative is - itís either proof of vaccination at some large scale events, and for international travel, or a lot of those industries die on their arse.

 


said the rabid giraffe whilst brandishing his throbbing member of reason, and twas ever thus.

Did you know? 95% of people are morons.

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 03 Apr 21 8.08pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

So if Georgia had insisted on this ID for people to vote there wouldnít have been any complaints.

Point?

Where did I say there would be no complaints

Iím just yet to hear any counter solution other than ĎI donít like ití - accompanied with entirely spurious fearmongering about one step away from social scoring and all sorts of hyperbole

The government couldnít create a properly functioning and efficient digital system if they tried. For anything. I really wouldnít worry. Itís the big tech brands you want to watch. Not that it will make any difference as to the road weíre on in that regard

 


said the rabid giraffe whilst brandishing his throbbing member of reason, and twas ever thus.

Did you know? 95% of people are morons.

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 03 Apr 21 8.15pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Point?

Where did I say there would be no complaints

Iím just yet to hear any counter solution other than ĎI donít like ití - accompanied with entirely spurious fearmongering about one step away from social scoring and all sorts of hyperbole

The government couldnít create a properly functioning and efficient digital system if they tried. For anything. I really wouldnít worry. Itís the big tech brands you want to watch. Not that it will make any difference as to the road weíre on in that regard

The point is that one form of ID caused widespread dismay but another is accepted without demur.
I agree the logistics of involved in digitising the system would be incredibly hard.

 

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View Eden Eagle's Profile Eden Eagle Flag Kent 03 Apr 21 8.19pm Send a Private Message to Eden Eagle Add Eden Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Itís not a domestic passport though is it

It will be left to the discretion of pubs and other commercial enterprises as to what practices they want to employ. Some of the bigger groups have already said they have no interest in such a policy. As mentioned itís large scale gatherings that in the short term will need to have something in place as they are ripe petri dishes for break outs.

And yes, come late summer most of this will be irrelevant anyway as most people will have us the jabs. Itís a temporary measure to get the economy going and moving back towards normality - again, no one is explaining to me what the alternative is - itís either proof of vaccination at some large scale events, and for international travel, or a lot of those industries die on their arse.

Yes it is a domestic passport.....

 

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