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May 18 2021 10.03pm

Interesting Brexit read

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 04 May 21 8.52pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

I think a European only military alliance to replace NATO is a good idea. Europe disgracefully hides behind the US when it should be paying for its own defences but who is actually going to attack it?

Russia has the GDP of Spain. Since the end of the Cold War NATO has expanded right up to its borders, despite promising it would not do so.

Russia represents ZERO threat to Europe in terms of any kind of conventional military conflict.

I would have zero problem with the UK being part of this European alliance but lets not pretend that Russian tanks are somehow going to be pouring over the borders and making for Berlin.

You'd be surprised how many countries have puppet Russian regimes. You see some of it on the tele such as Albania and the Ukraine. There are several others. There is also Syria and Turkey of course. You'd also be horrified by the current state of the forces at the German border. We're the ones letting it all go, you never know what people like Putin might do. Appeasement springs to mind.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 04 May 21 8.56pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

You keep on about rejoining. I don't think rejoining is a problem for any brexitters; but the issue would be the terms. Surely you understand that it wasn't being IN the eu which was the problem. It was the treatment given to the UK from the eu. You say we are top 5 but we wernt given any preferential treatment. You need to ask why that was if we were so influential. I don't know isn't an answer that will cut it wissie tbh.

I respect that view, but some, indeed many, hardline Brexiteers were wanting out at any cost. For them the very notion of us being part of the EU is an anathema and re-entry in any circumstances unthinkable.

We are probably closer in our views than you might imagine. I saw the need for change but wanted to achieve it from within. Now the baby has been thrown out and the bathwater running down the drain.

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Online Flag Horsham 04 May 21 9.03pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

I voted to remain danh!

Bazinga!

Edited by Spiderman (04 May 2021 9.03pm)

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 04 May 21 9.03pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Do you seriously think that would be a barrier?

We would likely re-enter on "associate" terms, with our currency opt out intact. Unless of course it got so bad that we were on our knees with the begging bowls out!

I always believed that if we voted to Remain in 2016, then joining the Euro would have been the logical step to take. One of my many objections to our EU membership was that by not adopting the single currency, it would push us by default to an increasingly isolated position and that our future had to be decided one way or the other. Either both feet fully in or, and by far my preferred option, completely out. We either had to be fully in the middle of the EU and embracing the wider ambitions or else leave it altogether.

If we ever do rejoin then I see nothing to be gained by not adopting the Euro, especially if we ever want to carry any kind of meaningful influence. Naturally, I will fight tooth and nail to prevent this (with the one exception being if somebody emerges who offers a truly inspiring vision of what a united Europe could look like) but anybody campaigning for us to rejoin, has to push for a complete signing up to ALL the EU projects.

Edited by Matov (04 May 2021 9.06pm)

 


In 1967, when Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take human life, replied: "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed communists."

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 04 May 21 9.20pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Do you seriously think that would be a barrier?

We would likely re-enter on "associate" terms, with our currency opt out intact. Unless of course it got so bad that we were on our knees with the begging bowls out!

Is this a forcast or your 'take' on it.

 

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View the silurian's Profile the silurian Flag The garden of England.(not really) 04 May 21 9.24pm Send a Private Message to the silurian Add the silurian as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Do you seriously think that would be a barrier?

We would likely re-enter on "associate" terms, with our currency opt out intact. Unless of course it got so bad that we were on our knees with the begging bowls out!

1.We are not reentering....and adopting the Euro is a requirement of entry
What is the point of 'associate ' terms? Thought you wanted to reform from within? As associates we would surely be unable to do that? You really think Macron and Merkei will just say welcome back on the same terms? No they will try and punish the UK for having the temerity to leave...but it isnt happening (unless weak as piss Starmer becomes PM and that aint happening either!

Edited by the silurian (04 May 2021 9.28pm)

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 04 May 21 9.43pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

We're the ones letting it all go, you never know what people like Putin might do. Appeasement springs to mind.

But what are Russians territorial claims? What threat does Europe face from Russia? I genuinely believe that if people really dug deep into what has happened with regards to Crimea and Ukraine then they would realise just how much more nuanced it all is.

Russia has seen NATO expand right up to its borders. NATO holds exercises within visual sight of its borders.

Now Putin is a very smart man (probably the sharpest political operator in the West as things stand) and has done incredible things for Russia but this notion of him being this all encompassing baddie just waiting to pounce is nothing more than a PR exercise for interested parties who want to keep up arms sales. I appreciate its not everybody's cup of tea but I strongly recommend people to seek out interviews with Putin on YouTube and listen to what he has to say. I have a lot of time for him and admire him for what I see as his genuine patriotism and love for his country. And see him as zero threat to the West. If anything, Russia should be our ally. Partners against genuine shared threats.

Russia is not the USSR. It is not a Communist regime with openly promoted ideals of world domination. It is, at best, a medium-sized first world economy. That is it.

Yes, its espionage is top class but Russia has always played in the top leagues at least in that aspect of statecraft.

Edited by Matov (04 May 2021 9.45pm)

 


In 1967, when Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take human life, replied: "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed communists."

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 04 May 21 10.03pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

But what are Russians territorial claims? What threat does Europe face from Russia? I genuinely believe that if people really dug deep into what has happened with regards to Crimea and Ukraine then they would realise just how much more nuanced it all is.

Russia has seen NATO expand right up to its borders. NATO holds exercises within visual sight of its borders.

Now Putin is a very smart man (probably the sharpest political operator in the West as things stand) and has done incredible things for Russia but this notion of him being this all encompassing baddie just waiting to pounce is nothing more than a PR exercise for interested parties who want to keep up arms sales. I appreciate its not everybody's cup of tea but I strongly recommend people to seek out interviews with Putin on YouTube and listen to what he has to say. I have a lot of time for him and admire him for what I see as his genuine patriotism and love for his country. And see him as zero threat to the West. If anything, Russia should be our ally. Partners against genuine shared threats.

Russia is not the USSR. It is not a Communist regime with openly promoted ideals of world domination. It is, at best, a medium-sized first world economy. That is it.

Yes, its espionage is top class but Russia has always played in the top leagues at least in that aspect of statecraft.

Edited by Matov (04 May 2021 9.45pm)

I can understand your point. Look into Armenia, Georgia - plenty of others. Not really much in our news at all. Albania, Chechnya, obviously Ukraine. They even fly over Ireland all the time.
The problem I would think with Putin is if he fails in domestic politics he may find a patriotic war or two.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 05 May 21 5.04am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I respect that view, but some, indeed many, hardline Brexiteers were wanting out at any cost. For them the very notion of us being part of the EU is an anathema and re-entry in any circumstances unthinkable.

We are probably closer in our views than you might imagine. I saw the need for change but wanted to achieve it from within. Now the baby has been thrown out and the bathwater running down the drain.

The difference being that I look over the fence occasionally!

 

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View Helmet46's Profile Helmet46 Flag Croydon 05 May 21 7.19am Send a Private Message to Helmet46 Add Helmet46 as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

I think a European only military alliance to replace NATO is a good idea. Europe disgracefully hides behind the US when it should be paying for its own defences but who is actually going to attack it?

Russia has the GDP of Spain. Since the end of the Cold War NATO has expanded right up to its borders, despite promising it would not do so.

Russia represents ZERO threat to Europe in terms of any kind of conventional military conflict.

I would have zero problem with the UK being part of this European alliance but lets not pretend that Russian tanks are somehow going to be pouring over the borders and making for Berlin.

But the trouble is that the EU is a trading block. You are talking about a “European Army” as though Europe is one country. It is a continent made up of a number of countries and that’s the problem, in my view. I give it 30 years and the EU will either be the ‘nation’ or will have lost many countries. What should perhaps happen is that it should look at Brexit, consider the reasons and ask itself if it needs to reform, slow down or change. It is too arrogant to do this, sadly.

To me it is absolutely clear that the ambitions of Brussels go well beyond a simple trading block. It will control taxes, access and economies as well as armies and air forces.

Personally I think the EU, with it’s current ambitions and leaders such as Macron - is looking like a potentially dangerous entity and, had it remained purely as a trading block - a collection of individual, friendly countries engaging in free trade and free movement - it would be perfect. That it needed a body to look after the collective trading interests when negotiating externally is clear but it didn’t need a parliament, a flag, a president. As I keep saying it is the direction of travel that I find most worrying here. (And I voted remain but have reflected, considered and reviewed over the last few years).

 

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View Helmet46's Profile Helmet46 Flag Croydon 05 May 21 7.31am Send a Private Message to Helmet46 Add Helmet46 as a friend

Here’s an example of your caring, sharing EU. Threatening to cut off electricity to an Island in a pandemic. Regardless of whether they will or won’t the rhetoric is fantastic and all in the name of the EU. Imagine if this f***er had the might of an EU Army behind him. God only knows what wholly disproportionate stuff he’d try to do or is an historically weak France simply the little kid standing at the back shouting ‘yeah, get him John’ in a scrap?

Obviously we have to honour our agreements and take a look at ourselves but .....

[Link]


Edited by Helmet46 (05 May 2021 7.50am)

 

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View Orange1290's Profile Orange1290 Flag 05 May 21 7.54am Send a Private Message to Orange1290 Add Orange1290 as a friend

Originally posted by Helmet46

Here’s an example of your caring, sharing EU. Threatening to cut off electricity to an Island in a pandemic. Regardless of whether they will or won’t the rhetoric is fantastic and all in the name of the EU. Imagine if this f***er had the might of an EU Army behind him. God only knows what wholly disproportionate stuff he’d try to do or is a historically weak France simply the little kid standing at the back shouting ‘yeah’ in a scrap?

Obviously we have to honour our agreements and take a look at ourselves but .....

[Link]


Edited by Helmet46 (05 May 2021 7.49am)


That's just a unilateral threat/action from France and has nothing to do with the 'EU'. As a sovereign nation, France or in fact any other country within or outside of the EU can take any action it sees fit. In fact that's been seen on multiple occasions during the pandemic when sovereign nations who are EU members and within the Schengen zone, closed their borders, absolutely zilch to do with the EU.

You're just showing your 'little England' hatred of the EU.

I give you 1/10, can try better but probably not capable.


Edited by Orange1290 (05 May 2021 7.55am)

 


Pro China, EU & Palestine

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