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May 18 2021 9.28pm

Interesting Brexit read

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 04 May 21 4.22pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Nothing like making the best of the situation. Weíre not going back so this brand of positivity could be better applied.

How do you know we won't be going back?

If, as seems very likely, the UK now breaks up, and England's economy in comparison with those parts of the UK that leave it and then join the EU, starts to decline, we may well negotiate a way back in.

It would have to save face, and by then it would probably be into a reformed two speed EU, but it's very possible.

When you are in a hole you stop digging and start searching for a ladder.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 04 May 21 4.25pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Helmet46

But the question was - IF that was the direction of travel would you support it?

With respect that was clearly no from the answer I gave.

 

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View Helmet46's Profile Helmet46 Flag Croydon 04 May 21 4.30pm Send a Private Message to Helmet46 Add Helmet46 as a friend

Originally posted by Orange1290

So you think that the UK is the only European country with 'honest' covid statistics? Grow up and stop defending the indefensible.

Here's some more facts for you to side step that explain why Germany has managed the pandemic so well compared to the UK.

"The UK has 7.3 critical care beds per 100,000 people, compared to Germany's 33.8 and the US's 34.3, analysis found."

[Link]

It's the reason why Italy, France, Spain and Germany, the countries with comparable population sizes but no island status advantages when it comes to controlling international movements, have all lower covid death rates per million than the UK. They've all invested in their health systems over decades.

Italy actually has a higher death rate per million than the UK as does Belgium. Accuracy is important. If youíre going to state things as ďfactsĒ then you should endeavour to make sure that they are correct.
Very sadly France is catching up but I sincerely hope that they donít as itís a terrible thing.

[Link]

Edited by Helmet46 (04 May 2021 4.35pm)

 

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View Orange1290's Profile Orange1290 Flag 04 May 21 5.04pm Send a Private Message to Orange1290 Add Orange1290 as a friend

Originally posted by Helmet46

Italy actually has a higher death rate per million than the UK as does Belgium. Accuracy is important. If youíre going to state things as ďfactsĒ then you should endeavour to make sure that they are correct.
Very sadly France is catching up but I sincerely hope that they donít as itís a terrible thing.

[Link]

Edited by Helmet46 (04 May 2021 4.35pm)

You're correct but it's marginal. However, Italy was the first country to be hit in Europe and combined with it's household demographic of multiple generations living together and 4 porous land borders, all factors that don't apply to the UK which has the advantage of being an island nation.

Still, the health system capacities of many European countries hugely exceed those of the UK and have managed to mitigate the death toll.

 


Pro China, EU & Palestine

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Online Flag Horsham 04 May 21 5.08pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

The worst thing about brexit is leavers making totally false claims about 'mighty unions' 'huge trade deals' and financial benefits received from leaving which are just not true.

If you left that's it but don't make up a load of false claims in justification.

We have left, get over it

 

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View Helmet46's Profile Helmet46 Flag Croydon 04 May 21 5.10pm Send a Private Message to Helmet46 Add Helmet46 as a friend

Originally posted by Orange1290

You're correct but it's marginal. However, Italy was the first country to be hit in Europe and combined with it's household demographic of multiple generations living together and 4 porous land borders, all factors that don't apply to the UK which has the advantage of being an island nation.

Still, the health system capacities of many European countries hugely exceed those of the UK and have managed to mitigate the death toll.


If itís marginal that way then itís marginal the other way so letís include USA, Spain, Croatia and Poland. In total that suggests that there are 15 European nations in a similar boat to the UK.

Cant have it both ways.


Edited by Helmet46 (04 May 2021 5.11pm)

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Online Flag Horsham 04 May 21 5.12pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

How do you know we won't be going back?

If, as seems very likely, the UK now breaks up, and England's economy in comparison with those parts of the UK that leave it and then join the EU, starts to decline, we may well negotiate a way back in.

It would have to save face, and by then it would probably be into a reformed two speed EU, but it's very possible.

When you are in a hole you stop digging and start searching for a ladder.

Perhaps you should take your own advice!

Scotland will never be allowed to join the EU, as things stand. You really think Englandís economy will decline compared to Scotland? Jeez

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Online Flag Horsham 04 May 21 5.12pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Helmet46

But the question was - IF that was the direction of travel would you support it?

Of course he would

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Online Flag Horsham 04 May 21 5.15pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Orange1290

You're correct but it's marginal. However, Italy was the first country to be hit in Europe and combined with it's household demographic of multiple generations living together and 4 porous land borders, all factors that don't apply to the UK which has the advantage of being an island nation.

Still, the health system capacities of many European countries hugely exceed those of the UK and have managed to mitigate the death toll.

You keep mentioning porous borders. That of course is correct but as I previously said, we should have closed our borders, do you agree? I doubt it as you travelled here during a pandemic.
Perhaps you can explain why, if the UK have been so poor in dealing with COVID, you chose to travel here

Edited by Spiderman (04 May 2021 5.17pm)

 

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View Orange1290's Profile Orange1290 Flag 04 May 21 5.31pm Send a Private Message to Orange1290 Add Orange1290 as a friend

Originally posted by Spiderman

You keep mentioning porous borders. That of course is correct but as I previously said, we should have closed our borders, do you agree? I doubt it as you travelled here during a pandemic.
Perhaps you can explain why, if the UK have been so poor in dealing with COVID, you chose to travel here

Edited by Spiderman (04 May 2021 5.17pm)


Where did I say that I travelled to the UK during the pandemic or in fact at anytime? The UK should have closed it's borders to US arrival as they had a terrible situation under Trump. The EU at least banned arrivals from the US. Then of course there was the arrivals from South Africa earlier this year where many countries had closed their borders to South Africa except the UK. Brazil is another example. I really don't understand why the UK is typically always last to act during the pandemic, never looking and learning from other countries that have applied such measures much earlier such as hotel quarantine on arrival. Track & trace was another debacle, £22 billion wasted. Even now, the 'traffic light' system being lauded as something new when it's been in place for many months in lots of other countries. I see far too much false exceptionalism that unfortunately many in the UK seem to fall for.

 


Pro China, EU & Palestine

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 04 May 21 5.43pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

How do you know we won't be going back?

If, as seems very likely, the UK now breaks up, and England's economy in comparison with those parts of the UK that leave it and then join the EU, starts to decline, we may well negotiate a way back in.

It would have to save face, and by then it would probably be into a reformed two speed EU, but it's very possible.

When you are in a hole you stop digging and start searching for a ladder.

All of which presupposes the willingness of the EU to have us back. Just as likely is other EU members waiting to see how Brexit works out before deciding whether they should stay in themselves. They might not think the six weeks between us leaving and the pandemic is long enough to make that call.

 

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View Helmet46's Profile Helmet46 Flag Croydon 04 May 21 6.51pm Send a Private Message to Helmet46 Add Helmet46 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

With respect that was clearly no from the answer I gave.

So I think that the EU are looking to expand and an army is the next logical step. Ironically the claim levelled at those that voted leave was that they wanted a return to the days of the empire.
It strikes me that must have been ironic. At the heart of the COVID crisis it is said that EU Inspectors visited an AZ plant in Italy and impounded vaccines they incorrectly stated were bound for the U.K. They werenít - they were bound for Africa. So NOT Italian inspectors or Police but EU ones.
I liked the trading block, the single market and freedom of movement but I really donít like what this is becoming as it worries me. On this one and on balance I prefer to be outside the tent and pissing out as well. The EU needs to remain a trading block and thatís it. What itís becoming is worrying in my humble opinion and I think it prudent to remain out and cautiously review.

 

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