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October 22 2021 5.11pm

Staff shortages

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 30 Sep 21 12.23pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

As long as they're not immigrants, aye?

We don't need immigrants.

We have millions without a job.

The ideological left and economic right have an immigration fetish.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 30 Sep 21 12.26pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

You think the kid riding a pushbike for Deliveroo on weekends is going to re-train as a full-time HGV driver?

Pure fantasy.

Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (30 Sep 2021 12.17pm)

Thereís a lot of Amazon and Yodel van drivers earning peanuts. Thereís plenty of options of movement in the labour market with this. Trouble is it takes time and during that time weíll get the usual people screaming ĎíBrexit and we want low prices but better pay and conditions and higher standard of living.íí

You canít have change without change. Of course the supply situation needs to improve from here, but I donít expect it to be back to normal. It actually wasnít too good weeks before. Sometimes you had to go to the next one or two petrol stations. Once the media got involved you canít get anything without queuing half a day, and the supply of fuel didnít change at all.

 


COYP

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 30 Sep 21 12.26pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

We don't need immigrants.

We have millions without a job.

The ideological left and economic right have an immigration fetish.

And what happens if the millions don't have the skill nor the appetite to do the work?

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 30 Sep 21 12.32pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

And what happens if the millions don't have the skill nor the appetite to do the work?

This is where the better pay etc comes in. If you say to a parcel courier earning well under £20k he can earn 3 times more then you can expect people will do it. Then you get the job centres or whatever theyíre now called to get tough on work applications, which will include vacancies left by new HGV drivers. Takes time of course. Or we just keep importing cheaper labour and never improve our own citizens. I can bet the same objectors will have been unhappy with overpaid 30 year olds blocking the way of young graduates or signings in the palace squad.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (30 Sep 2021 12.33pm)

 


COYP

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 30 Sep 21 12.34pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Thereís a lot of Amazon and Yodel van drivers earning peanuts. Thereís plenty of options of movement in the labour market with this. Trouble is it takes time and during that time weíll get the usual people screaming ĎíBrexit and we want low prices but better pay and conditions and higher standard of living.íí

You canít have change without change. Of course the supply situation needs to improve from here, but I donít expect it to be back to normal. It actually wasnít too good weeks before. Sometimes you had to go to the next one or two petrol stations. Once the media got involved you canít get anything without queuing half a day, and the supply of fuel didnít change at all.

Right, so let's pretend thousands of Amazon drivers (I don't even know if they employ that many) decide to pack that in and become a HGV driver - you then have a shortage of X-thousand Amazon drivers, so Amazon increase their salary offering, where do they attract new drivers from?

The nature of a finite pool of resource is that no matter how many times you move it around, if it is not enough, it is not enough.

We can pretend that prisoners and the work-shy are going to pick up all the slack, but it's an obvious reality you can't force people to do a job they don't want to do.

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 30 Sep 21 12.53pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Right, so let's pretend thousands of Amazon drivers (I don't even know if they employ that many) decide to pack that in and become a HGV driver - you then have a shortage of X-thousand Amazon drivers, so Amazon increase their salary offering, where do they attract new drivers from?

The nature of a finite pool of resource is that no matter how many times you move it around, if it is not enough, it is not enough.

We can pretend that prisoners and the work-shy are going to pick up all the slack, but it's an obvious reality you can't force people to do a job they don't want to do.

You only need a driving licence and be over 18 or whatever and you can deliver parcels. There are many unemployed and furlough ends today for a huge amount of people, including many hgv drivers youíd be surprised to hear. Mustíve been transporting non essential goods around.

There are rules on claiming Jobseekerís Allowance or whatever they call it. It depends on how you apply the rules. During labour days you could self certify yourself on incapacity benefit. Theyíd even encourage some to do so.

If it isnít higher wages they now donít want then itís nobody will do the jobs anyway. Itís quite revealing from these remoaner lefties. Oh itís okay for Keira Starmer to announce £15 minimum wage but if anyone to the right of centre starts talking about it the economy is going to collapse

Edited by Rudi Hedman (30 Sep 2021 12.55pm)

 


COYP

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 Sep 21 12.55pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Right, so let's pretend thousands of Amazon drivers (I don't even know if they employ that many) decide to pack that in and become a HGV driver - you then have a shortage of X-thousand Amazon drivers, so Amazon increase their salary offering, where do they attract new drivers from?

The nature of a finite pool of resource is that no matter how many times you move it around, if it is not enough, it is not enough.

We can pretend that prisoners and the work-shy are going to pick up all the slack, but it's an obvious reality you can't force people to do a job they don't want to do.

You could incentivise working, however, whilst at the same time de-incentivising welfare. Each person getting a job after being on social welfare could get either a lump sum, or a weekly payment for say six months. At the same time, being on the dole could be finite, or the dole could be reduced over time for individuals who won't work. My main caveat would be that, I wouldn't like that to affect those who cannot work due to disability or circumstance. That should be supported. We cannot continue to have several million on the dole, whilst there are hundreds of thousands of job vacancies, it's patently ridiculous.
As for this HGV being really hard thing, firstly I did mine over about 8 weeks, not that long and it was paid for by the government as a training scheme. Don't know if that still exists, I suspect it does. Secondly, why not use the army? If it's an emergency, sure they'll be glad to do it and so many forces people are qualified HGV drivers. I suspect Boris doesn't want to look bad.

Edited by ASCPFC (30 Sep 2021 12.57pm)

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 30 Sep 21 1.17pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Right, so let's pretend thousands of Amazon drivers (I don't even know if they employ that many) decide to pack that in and become a HGV driver - you then have a shortage of X-thousand Amazon drivers, so Amazon increase their salary offering, where do they attract new drivers from?

The nature of a finite pool of resource is that no matter how many times you move it around, if it is not enough, it is not enough.

We can pretend that prisoners and the work-shy are going to pick up all the slack, but it's an obvious reality you can't force people to do a job they don't want to do.

There is a shortage of HGV drivers because it is a skill that requires a qualification, it is also an unsocial job that many would not like.

Delivery drivers is not a skill anyone with a licence can do it so the pool of labour if far greater. If the hours and pay are are lousy then that has to be addressed. The numbers are there if they want the job.

I agree with ASCPFC about incentivising people back into work and then using the stick if they don't.

The unemployed often complain about the lag between their last benefit cheque and their first pay cheque. I would not be against continuing to pay benefits until that person gets his first salary it will only be a matter of weeks after which the taxpayer will benefit.

I would also look at encouraging people to take short term contracts with a similar financial incentive as hopefully this will lead to a permanent job.

Edited by Badger11 (30 Sep 2021 1.19pm)

Edited by Badger11 (30 Sep 2021 1.19pm)

 


One more point

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 30 Sep 21 2.13pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

And what happens if the millions don't have the skill nor the appetite to do the work?

How does that differ from any other country?

The first issue is training, which is what companies should be doing anyway.

The second one requires motivation, which is the job of the state.....in a lot of situations I've found it to be false anyway....companies preferring cheaper and easier to boss around foreign workers to British ones and then using 'they don't want to work' as an excuse.

The extent of the real work-shy is overstated by those with other agendas.

As I say, there's an immigration fetish.

Edited by Stirlingsays (30 Sep 2021 2.16pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View croydon proud's Profile croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 30 Sep 21 2.17pm Send a Private Message to croydon proud Add croydon proud as a friend

Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer

It's alright lads, our benevolent criminals are going to save the day. Imagine the fun they'll have delivering thousands of pounds worth of goods around.

Dominic Raab wants firms who are short of workers to hire PRISONERS [Link]

Edited by Palace Old Geezer (30 Sep 2021 10.43am)

Ha ha , Rabb! "Ello luv, its the delivery you ordered!". "The keys under the mat driver, can you bring it in to the kitchen please, i"m upstairs in bed and can"t come down, i"m waiting for my carer to arrive, let yourself out". Certainly can madam , certainly can!

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 30 Sep 21 2.17pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

You only need a driving licence and be over 18 or whatever and you can deliver parcels. There are many unemployed and furlough ends today for a huge amount of people, including many hgv drivers youíd be surprised to hear. Mustíve been transporting non essential goods around.

There are rules on claiming Jobseekerís Allowance or whatever they call it. It depends on how you apply the rules. During labour days you could self certify yourself on incapacity benefit. Theyíd even encourage some to do so.

If it isnít higher wages they now donít want then itís nobody will do the jobs anyway. Itís quite revealing from these remoaner lefties. Oh itís okay for Keira Starmer to announce £15 minimum wage but if anyone to the right of centre starts talking about it the economy is going to collapse

Edited by Rudi Hedman (30 Sep 2021 12.55pm)

Why do you insist on including hypotheticals in every post? Can you not just hold a discussion on what's in front of you rather than inventing positions?

"I can guarantee..."
"we'll get the usual people screaming.."
"I can bet the same objectors.."

I've made no comments on Starmer's £15 minimum wage, so you have no idea my view on it - just because you subscribe to group-think, it doesn't mean everyone else does.

Just address the points being made and you might not have to fall back on moronic phrases like 'remoaner lefties' to try and support your argument.

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 30 Sep 21 2.26pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

You could incentivise working, however, whilst at the same time de-incentivising welfare. Each person getting a job after being on social welfare could get either a lump sum, or a weekly payment for say six months. At the same time, being on the dole could be finite, or the dole could be reduced over time for individuals who won't work. My main caveat would be that, I wouldn't like that to affect those who cannot work due to disability or circumstance. That should be supported. We cannot continue to have several million on the dole, whilst there are hundreds of thousands of job vacancies, it's patently ridiculous.
As for this HGV being really hard thing, firstly I did mine over about 8 weeks, not that long and it was paid for by the government as a training scheme. Don't know if that still exists, I suspect it does. Secondly, why not use the army? If it's an emergency, sure they'll be glad to do it and so many forces people are qualified HGV drivers. I suspect Boris doesn't want to look bad.

Edited by ASCPFC (30 Sep 2021 12.57pm)

I agree on incentivising working, I just don't think you can do it to the extent others do.

I don't think you can make the dole finite - as you allude to, the age-old problem with a welfare system is that it is always going to be exploitable to some extent, and you will always have people happy to exploit it. The question is whether you cut off those in genuine need of help to stop the exploiters.. like you, I'd argue you don't.

So you tighten all the loop holes you can, you incentivise people to work as much as you can, I just don't think it's sufficient to plug the level of gaps we're talking about.

 

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