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December 1 2021 6.55pm

Tory sleaze part 2,783

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 18 Nov 21 1.12pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Great post, and completely agree - I find many Tory-voters apathy to this, and indeed the PPE stuff, nothing short of disgraceful - to me, these issues should transcend your personal politics. This isn't being a bit wasteful, or making a wrong decision, it's overt, deliberate corruption, and no amount of whatabouttery is going to convince me I shouldn't be outraged by it.

And before someone tells me "they're all at it", it's simply not true on the same scale and quantity.


Thank you kindly

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 18 Nov 21 3.00pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

It appears to be so endemic that they can't bring themselves to bring in rules that substantively do anything about it. I had thought that claims of it being a conservative issue were just partisanship but if you see the numbers it's literally almost exclusively tories with second jobs and 'consultancy' roles, raking in millions.

Really though regardless of a persons politics this is terrible as it's a key elements of corporations having a voice that those casting a vote lack, and all that this then leads to. It's a shame that the other thread led to a tonne of 'but what about labour!' from some, as 1) evidentially this presently far more concentrated in one party 2) any changes brought in that clamp down on this impact all parties anyway so such distractions are counterproductive to a solution 3) the core of so many (almost all) problems in society realistically comes down to corporate influence and who's getting paid, so we should be laser focused on it rather than fob it off.


There are some strange ideas about ethics that we simply ignore if it's not 'our lot' (aka a bunch of politicians we align with who still don't give a monkeys toss about us). The PPI contract stuff was nothing short of despicable for instance - this dynamic writ large - and yet it was painted like some kind of made up scandal.

If anything solving problems like this are as important as who we vote for, as money and jobs for influence only seeks to silence the voice of the people and drain money by the billion from the tax payer without us getting much of anything to show for it.

I think yours is essentially constructive and honest criticism.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 18 Nov 21 3.06pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I think yours is essentially constructive and honest criticism.

Thanks. Sadly I expect things will carry on much as they have done anyway, so there may be an element of p!ssing in the wind to it. But who knows.. hope springs eternal

 

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View croydon proud's Profile croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 18 Nov 21 4.20pm Send a Private Message to croydon proud Add croydon proud as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Thanks. Sadly I expect things will carry on much as they have done anyway, so there may be an element of p!ssing in the wind to it. But who knows.. hope springs eternal

I wouldn"t hold your breath blue!

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 18 Nov 21 4.33pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Thanks. Sadly I expect things will carry on much as they have done anyway, so there may be an element of p!ssing in the wind to it. But who knows.. hope springs eternal

Corporate control and influence is becoming stronger unfortunately. In my view corporatism and finance has been....effectively a form of shadow governance...rather than government for many decades, possibly since before WW1, just less powerful then.

Now it's almost undeniable to anyone interested enough to be actually observing.....I mean anyone could ask Greece.

I'm less optimistic than yourself but there is certainly no criticism to being hopeful.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 18 Nov 21 4.53pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Yes, likely misplaced hope due to how extreme the grip of power has become. But then without a grain of hope that change can occur and occasional pushback, they likely turn the screw even faster.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 18 Nov 21 8.51pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Great post, and completely agree - I find many Tory-voters apathy to this, and indeed the PPE stuff, nothing short of disgraceful - to me, these issues should transcend your personal politics. This isn't being a bit wasteful, or making a wrong decision, it's overt, deliberate corruption, and no amount of whatabouttery is going to convince me I shouldn't be outraged by it.

And before someone tells me "they're all at it", it's simply not true on the same scale and quantity.


You post this because you aren't a tory of course. It won't change my vote as sharing the wealth doesn't work.
Capitalism has taken millions more out of poverty than socialism.
Do the research!

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 19 Nov 21 12.27am Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

You post this because you aren't a tory of course. It won't change my vote as sharing the wealth doesn't work.
Capitalism has taken millions more out of poverty than socialism.
Do the research!

It's more than possible to favour capitalism, but also seek to reign in those who are corrupt or pick our pockets. Governments love to repeatedly find ways to privatise profits and socialise losses. That's a funny kind of capitalism.

It's the piggy bank of our efforts, and our money that they routinely dip into when they are bought off on the cheap by companies, rather than advocating for the interests of those who put them in power. It doesn't matter who's doing it, it matters that it happens.

And they're brazen with it.


Edited by BlueJay (19 Nov 2021 12.40am)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 19 Nov 21 2.03am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

I think you are both right.

The profit motive definitely works better than any other tried system.

The criticism is in the implementation....I think the left are correct to point out...for example the ridiculous advances the top percent have made since the seventies compared to the working Joe/Jane in the street.

There should be a symbiotic relationship between the rich and poor(er) because it keeps the interests of both aligned. Since that was broken the consequences are quite dystopian in my view.

I don't regard it as an attack on the successful principles of capitalism to point out that we are all being fleeced by financial elites with far too much influence on what happens in our lives. We, nor our ancestors I might add, ever agreed to sign over that financial power nor influence.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Nov 2021 2.04am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag 19 Nov 21 2.35am Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Sorry wrong thread

Edited by dreamwaverider (19 Nov 2021 3.26am)

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 19 Nov 21 12.00pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

You post this because you aren't a tory of course. It won't change my vote as sharing the wealth doesn't work.
Capitalism has taken millions more out of poverty than socialism.
Do the research!

The irony of you telling someone else to do some research is too good to pass up.

If you think the only alternative to what the Tories are doing currently is socialism, then there is little point in further exchange on the topic.

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 19 Nov 21 12.06pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I think you are both right.

The profit motive definitely works better than any other tried system.

The criticism is in the implementation....I think the left are correct to point out...for example the ridiculous advances the top percent have made since the seventies compared to the working Joe/Jane in the street.

There should be a symbiotic relationship between the rich and poor(er) because it keeps the interests of both aligned. Since that was broken the consequences are quite dystopian in my view.

I don't regard it as an attack on the successful principles of capitalism to point out that we are all being fleeced by financial elites with far too much influence on what happens in our lives. We, nor our ancestors I might add, ever agreed to sign over that financial power nor influence.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Nov 2021 2.04am)

Of course it does - I've no idea why my criticism of this government and it's corruption is being conflated with support for socialism.

Agree with the rest of your post completely.

 

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