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A Glipmse Into The Near Future

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 11 Nov 21 2.28pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

No of course not but is it fair to allow military age men to push their way into our country (and enrich criminal gangs) who says they are the most deserving?

I would much rather we stop this and send them back until we kill this horrid people trafficking trade. Immigration should then be done through the local embassy where the weak and the more deserving can be helped.

If only it was that easy!

We are trying to stop the illegals. It's not a lack of desire, it's the scale and complexity of the task, together with our obligations under international conventions, that is the problem. Determined people will usually find a way around whatever barriers are erected, given enough time. This needs to be done at source and not at the destination. Which is why we require the willing help of our neighbours and of those countries which serve as the entry points. I know you don't like hearing it, but Brexit hasn't helped us at all.

Passing it back to local embassies is, regrettably, impractical. Visas used to be handled this way (Spiderman will be able to speak more authoritatively than me) but has now been placed in the hands of commercial agencies who ensure all the documentation is correct before the decisions are taken remotely. Staff numbers at embassies are no longer sufficient, or skilled enough, to deal with this.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (11 Nov 2021 3.14pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 11 Nov 21 2.39pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Orban would sort this problem out in under two years.

But that's a conservative....not this woke green thing passing itself off as current conservatism.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 11 Nov 21 3.11pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Orban would sort this problem out in under two years.

But that's a conservative....not this woke green thing passing itself off as current conservatism.

Victor Orban, the pillar of democracy. Who heads a regime accused of suppressing a free press, but still admired by some who frequently moan about freedom of speech being undermined.

Who is accused of hosting, and praising, ex Nazis.

Who is accused of blatant antisemitism.

Sure, he could sort it out. Anyone prepared to sink all the boats and put those who escaped into concentration camps could sort it out.

If that's conservatism, then you can keep it.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 11 Nov 21 3.39pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Who gives a monkey's what leftists think of Orban.

I'm a guy who actually doesn't agree with free speech suppression....Whereas you're the guy who was on here advocating that the authorities close down Gab....the guy who supported a president being silenced from social media.

So please, the hypocrisy drips off every word.

People make accusations, the truth of the matter frequently lies elsewhere.....but liars always want to scare others away from effective solutions and instead support a demoralised acceptance.

Oh and I don't support 'Nazis'....though I recognise your desire to get that word in anyway you can....By the way, the actual Nazis did support your desire to close down free speech though, so suck on that slipper.

If you don't like Orban's methods.....and I reserve judgement upon specific situations....then don't try to excuse the problems in the first place with a literal shoulder shrug as if there were no actual solution.

Because if we need Orban to stop the disgusting imported disease of grooming gangs, yeah then I'd have him here in a shot.

Knife crimes would certainly suffer....unlike the renaissance it has enjoyed under Khan....where the reelected but awful Khan (as I predicted years ago) oversees a situation where half of all national knife crime happens in London.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Nov 2021 3.49pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 11 Nov 21 6.02pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Who gives a monkey's what leftists think of Orban.

I'm a guy who actually doesn't agree with free speech suppression....Whereas you're the guy who was on here advocating that the authorities close down Gab....the guy who supported a president being silenced from social media.

So please, the hypocrisy drips off every word.

People make accusations, the truth of the matter frequently lies elsewhere.....but liars always want to scare others away from effective solutions and instead support a demoralised acceptance.

Oh and I don't support 'Nazis'....though I recognise your desire to get that word in anyway you can....By the way, the actual Nazis did support your desire to close down free speech though, so suck on that slipper.

If you don't like Orban's methods.....and I reserve judgement upon specific situations....then don't try to excuse the problems in the first place with a literal shoulder shrug as if there were no actual solution.

Because if we need Orban to stop the disgusting imported disease of grooming gangs, yeah then I'd have him here in a shot.

Knife crimes would certainly suffer....unlike the renaissance it has enjoyed under Khan....where the reelected but awful Khan (as I predicted years ago) oversees a situation where half of all national knife crime happens in London.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Nov 2021 3.49pm)

For the umpteenth squared time, I am not, by any kind of reasonable understanding of the term, a "leftist". Only those on the furthest outer orbit of right wing political thought, regard those who take even a slightly less extreme view than themselves, as "leftists".

I know you advocate freedom of speech. You bleat about it here too often for that to go unnoticed. Here you are though supporting Orban who restricts it. Hypocrisy on full view.

I, too, support free speech, just so long as what is said isn't illegal or dangerous. There are no unrestricted rights in any democracy. Laws impose responsibilities alongside the protection of rights.

I have never suggested that Gab be closed. All I have ever recommended is that moderation be required, which ensures that the illegal or dangerous are removed.

Of course, I supported Trump losing his social media platforms. Not because of his politics. Because he spread demonstrable untruths and encouraged others to believe things that were untrue. That the privately owned social media businesses decided Trump's lies needed to be exorcised was their right, and a huge step forward.

The scourge of misinformation circulating on social media continues to this day. Only this morning, I received a video purporting to show VP Harris stating that all those now dying from Covid were vaccinated. That it had been tampered with, and what she actually said was precisely the opposite, didn't stop it being widely believed.

That's not free speech. That's dangerous speech, and it has to be dealt with. It needs to be moderated out or, at the very least, detailed rebuttals given appropriate prominence.

I didn't accuse you of supporting Nazis. You support Orban, and HE appears to support Nazis.

I have never said that either there isn't a problem, or that there isn't a solution. I won't repeat the solution again. You can find it in previous posts if you really want to.

Are the grooming gangs exclusively the product of illegal immigration, which is what we are discussing? I suspect many, probably most, arrived here perfectly legally but am prepared to be proved wrong.

Chucking in Khan and knife crime, as a favourite whataboutism, is hardly relevant to this, is it?

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 11 Nov 21 6.25pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

This post is almost a perfect example of why this guy deserves all the criticisms he gets.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 11 Nov 21 6.50pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

For the umpteenth squared time, I am not, by any kind of reasonable understanding of the term, a "leftist". Only those on the furthest outer orbit of right wing political thought, regard those who take even a slightly less extreme view than themselves, as "leftists".

I know you advocate freedom of speech. You bleat about it here too often for that to go unnoticed. Here you are though supporting Orban who restricts it. Hypocrisy on full view.

I, too, support free speech, just so long as what is said isn't illegal or dangerous. There are no unrestricted rights in any democracy. Laws impose responsibilities alongside the protection of rights.

I have never suggested that Gab be closed. All I have ever recommended is that moderation be required, which ensures that the illegal or dangerous are removed.

Of course, I supported Trump losing his social media platforms. Not because of his politics. Because he spread demonstrable untruths and encouraged others to believe things that were untrue. That the privately owned social media businesses decided Trump's lies needed to be exorcised was their right, and a huge step forward.

The scourge of misinformation circulating on social media continues to this day. Only this morning, I received a video purporting to show VP Harris stating that all those now dying from Covid were vaccinated. That it had been tampered with, and what she actually said was precisely the opposite, didn't stop it being widely believed.

That's not free speech. That's dangerous speech, and it has to be dealt with. It needs to be moderated out or, at the very least, detailed rebuttals given appropriate prominence.

I didn't accuse you of supporting Nazis. You support Orban, and HE appears to support Nazis.

I have never said that either there isn't a problem, or that there isn't a solution. I won't repeat the solution again. You can find it in previous posts if you really want to.

Are the grooming gangs exclusively the product of illegal immigration, which is what we are discussing? I suspect many, probably most, arrived here perfectly legally but am prepared to be proved wrong.

Chucking in Khan and knife crime, as a favourite whataboutism, is hardly relevant to this, is it?

But Khan is a w***er of a Gold standard. You clearly haven't had to cross London lately I guess. When you do please let me know it hasn't been f***ed up to the empth degree.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 11 Nov 21 7.03pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

But Khan is a w***er of a Gold standard. You clearly haven't had to cross London lately I guess. When you do please let me know it hasn't been f***ed up to the empth degree.

Is a perfectly reasonable opinion. It just doesn't have the slightest connection to the subject under discussion and is a "perfect example" of whataboutism.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 11 Nov 21 7.08pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

This post is almost a perfect example of why this guy deserves all the criticisms he gets.

This post is a perfect example of the ad hominem.

Used when a poster has no answers to the points being made, so resorts to personal attacks.

That it's a very familiar response here is unfortunate, but nevertheless pretty disappointing.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 11 Nov 21 7.29pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

This post is a perfect example of the ad hominem.

Used when a poster has no answers to the points being made, so resorts to personal attacks.

That it's a very familiar response here is unfortunate, but nevertheless pretty disappointing.

Really???

I've spent time answering stuff stuff from you for months and months before I figured out your rather sad game. I've tackled this stuff on Hol for years. But apparently all of a sudden I haven't got answers?

No, the actual truth is....I won't engage with a liar for any longer than I desire to. You would like nothing better than to spend your time going back and forth with your dishonest and hypocritical rhetoric.

I'm happy for others to read and think through what's there.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Nov 2021 7.30pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 11 Nov 21 7.43pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Really???

I've spent time answering stuff stuff from you for months and months before I figured out your rather sad game. I've tackled this stuff on Hol for years. But apparently all of a sudden I haven't got answers?

No, the actual truth is....I won't engage with a liar for any longer than I desire to. You would like nothing better than to spend your time going back and forth with your dishonest and hypocritical rhetoric.

I'm happy for others to read and think through what's there.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Nov 2021 7.30pm)

Thatís just another ad hominem! Call someone a "liar", "dishonest" and "hypocritical" but refuse to say how or where.

I believe you are all of those things, but do try to point out why.

The only point of agreement is that I am quite happy for others to read and think it through. Even though I doubt whether your colleagues in the sorry little extreme right cabal that you inhabit here will publicly acknowledge anything but contempt for me, and reverence for you, I am content that privately a few might get the points. That's enough.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 11 Nov 21 8.00pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Is a perfectly reasonable opinion. It just doesn't have the slightest connection to the subject under discussion and is a "perfect example" of whataboutism.

Relevance about mayor khants attitude it is though.
He a dick.

 

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