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December 7 2022 1.18am

CONservative government incompetence.

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 19 Nov 22 1.09pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by The groover

Also, if the right has such strong support why did the BNP and National front poll so poorly. It was the same for the communists when they ran.

It's mainly media and legal restrictions.....laws such as 'protected characteristics', which weren't there in generations past....it restricts what parties can actually advocate for. You may not like the arguments, but you can't also say that's democratic. These laws and requirements didn't exist before Blair.

The funding for these parties are also attacked. People have had their bank accounts withdrawn. They have been sacked from their jobs, members lists have been doxxed. I'm not sure how you can make the argument that this is somehow not a manufactured political landscape.

The media control how their arguments are presented and the reality that they aren't allowed to put their arguments to the people in the same way the 'centre left' or 'centre right' are.

You want evidence?

In France the dissident right and left have a far stronger presence in politics and that's down to being allowed to actually pitch their ideas with more freedom. These parties aren't being hammered economically, their people aren't being sacked. It's a massive difference.

Also, in the UK we have Farage, who essentially didn't allow previous dissident right members from joining Ukip.....Mainly down to media pressure and he soaked up all their votes.....Voting for Farage's parties were deemed acceptable whereas it was a risk to join or vote for say, the BNP.

You see, I have no issues with you making the case above....But the 'your politics aren't popular' arguments always seems to come without the acknowledgement that there is nothing like a level playing field.

Provide a level playing field and then once your 'centre left' or 'centre right' party wins elections then what you say here carries far more weight.....and I would have no problem with it within the Democratic system....as people should get what they vote for.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Nov 2022 1.15pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View The groover's Profile The groover Flag Danbury 19 Nov 22 1.33pm Send a Private Message to The groover Add The groover as a friend

Even so, prior to blair the right never achieved anything as I said. In the past censorship of views was far less prevelant.

We had constant calls for violence against ethnic minorities and groups wandering the streets looking for someone to attack.

As were the antifa groups as they looked for right wingers to beat up. Violence seems to follow these groups and personally I'm glad that in these cases the right to free speech has been curtailed.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 19 Nov 22 3.48pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by The groover

Even so, prior to blair the right never achieved anything as I said. In the past censorship of views was far less prevelant.

Prior to Blair the demographic situation in the country was nothing like it is now. Powell was popular back in the sixties and seventies but the establishment booted him...but as for how the boomers voted back in those times and their willingness to put their faith in all that egalitarianism they were sold....well, they can explain it to their grandchildren.

There was less censorship and persecution before Blair, I agree with you. We lived through those times. However, this isn't the same thing as saying it was a level playing field.

However, because of the freer environment dissident groups had more support than they had now, and that's even within the environment where the media were still gate keeping their pitches from the masses....with basically outright condemnation whenever they were mentioned.

Again, if you are going to refer to 'popularity' you have to also recognise if the arguments have been allowed to be made on a level playing field to your 'centre left', 'centre right'.

Originally posted by The groover

We had constant calls for violence against ethnic minorities and groups wandering the streets looking for someone to attack.

That's illegal, who was doing that?

Originally posted by The groover

As were the antifa groups as they looked for right wingers to beat up. Violence seems to follow these groups and personally I'm glad that in these cases the right to free speech has been curtailed.

Antifa are essentially an operating group, along with BLM for the Democratic party.....it's why that you essentially don't hear much about them now.

They haven't gone away and they weren't locked up for their 18 months of rioting and violence either.

However, in terms of saying dissident groups shouldn't be allowed a voice. Well, I completely disagree with that, whether regardless of left or right, capitalist or communist.

While I agree, that violence shouldn't be allowed I don't agree with the idea that the marketplace of ideas should be restricted to what you deem acceptable.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Nov 2022 3.55pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 20 Nov 22 12.51pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Apparently, they plan to raise fuel duty next March.....12p extra on petrol and diesel.

That should have been in the Autumn statement.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 20 Nov 22 6.08pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's mainly media and legal restrictions.....laws such as 'protected characteristics', which weren't there in generations past....it restricts what parties can actually advocate for. You may not like the arguments, but you can't also say that's democratic. These laws and requirements didn't exist before Blair.

The funding for these parties are also attacked. People have had their bank accounts withdrawn. They have been sacked from their jobs, members lists have been doxxed. I'm not sure how you can make the argument that this is somehow not a manufactured political landscape.

The media control how their arguments are presented and the reality that they aren't allowed to put their arguments to the people in the same way the 'centre left' or 'centre right' are.

You want evidence?

In France the dissident right and left have a far stronger presence in politics and that's down to being allowed to actually pitch their ideas with more freedom. These parties aren't being hammered economically, their people aren't being sacked. It's a massive difference.

Also, in the UK we have Farage, who essentially didn't allow previous dissident right members from joining Ukip.....Mainly down to media pressure and he soaked up all their votes.....Voting for Farage's parties were deemed acceptable whereas it was a risk to join or vote for say, the BNP.

You see, I have no issues with you making the case above....But the 'your politics aren't popular' arguments always seems to come without the acknowledgement that there is nothing like a level playing field.

Provide a level playing field and then once your 'centre left' or 'centre right' party wins elections then what you say here carries far more weight.....and I would have no problem with it within the Democratic system....as people should get what they vote for.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Nov 2022 1.15pm)

I think you are either very confused or wilfully misrepresenting the situation. Many things, like votes for women, didn't exist before the law changed under a prime minister! Those "protected characteristics" you complain about are all part of a general evolution of the law. In this case the Equality Act 2010.

Nothing at all stops you, or anyone else, from campaigning to reverse any law. You are completely free to pitch whatever ideas you like. What you cannot do, is break a law. That really is democracy.

Those who ignore the law will always attract the attention of the authorities and must expect that steps be taken to restrain their ability to do so. Organisations that encourage law breaking particularly so.

Farage didn't break the law. He might have disliked some aspects, and argued for their reversal, but he stayed on the right side. That's all that's needed, whether in the UK or in France. The BNP, and their "dissident" brothers, appear not to understand that.

There is a completely level playing field for those who play by the rules.

 

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 20 Nov 22 10.12pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Law breaking currently appears to be generally ignored if the police like the cause leading to criminal acts such as Extinction Rebellion.

On another issue in this thread, can somebody explain to me what far right and dissident right are and what characteristics they have?

Seems not being Gary Neville is far right and watching GB News is dissident right

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 20 Nov 22 11.05pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

Law breaking currently appears to be generally ignored if the police like the cause leading to criminal acts such as Extinction Rebellion.

On another issue in this thread, can somebody explain to me what far right and dissident right are and what characteristics they have?

Seems not being Gary Neville is far right and watching GB News is dissident right

I don't think the police have any views on a cause. Individual officers might do personally but that won't impact on their professional duty to uphold the law.

I have no time for Extinction Rebellion, or indeed for any group of activists who believe their opinions entitle them to disrupt the lives of others. However, we permit peaceful protest and the problem the police must have is deciding where the line between that and causing disruption lies in a legal sense. It might look obvious to us, and I suspect to most of the officers involved, but they cannot risk stepping over a legal line and risking bad publicity or compensation awards. The solution lies in changing the law and drawing the lines more clearly and in the interests of most of us, and not those who protest.

According to the poster who most frequently refers to the dissident right on here, and considers himself a member, it means anyone at all to the right of mainstream Conservative thinking. Which is a very broad church, but certainly includes the far right. I see it being used as a cloak to cover up some views now generally regarded as unacceptable, by using a new, neutral sounding name and then associating it with others not so extreme.

It's political marketing. Few would vote for the British Marxist Party, or the National Socialist Party of Great Britain, but they might for The Left Foot Forward, or The Dissident Alternative.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 20 Nov 22 11.24pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

Law breaking currently appears to be generally ignored if the police like the cause leading to criminal acts such as Extinction Rebellion.

On another issue in this thread, can somebody explain to me what far right and dissident right are and what characteristics they have?

Seems not being Gary Neville is far right and watching GB News is dissident right

Like all groups they are an eclectic group, comprising as wide a group as traditionalists to Fascists. So when someone says 'dissident right' it's including that diverse range.

The dissident right is essentially the right wing who are dissident from the Tory party because they regard it as having moved to the left, usually on social terms but not exclusively.

It incorporates a left, centre and right....the left would be say Farage types....Hitchens types who think the Tories need to be cleared out and started again.....Types who would go back to the Tories of the 60s, 70s, 80s

They still believe in much of the liberal canon but feel that conservatism and traditionalism have lost its way and needs rebirth.

In the centre? I'd probably place Tommy Robinson. He still believes in much of liberalism along with traditionalism but just thinks that mainstream Islam is incompatible with the west.....So he's a bit from both ends of the dissident right spectrum.....Maybe a Douglas Murray would fit in there somewhere between left and centre.

The 'far right', would be the right wing of the dissident right and include those who all the left call Nazis (though lots of them call pretty much all of the dissident right Nazis to be honest.)...That would be the Mark Collet types. They believe in the JQ, race realism and a whole heap of other stuff that is far too spicy to talk about here. Maybe the Farages and other types also believe in those things but you won't find them talking about it so I honestly wouldn't know....and of course Farage famously banned anyone more right wing than him joining Ukip.

There is a 'far right' that you hear about from the mainstream news who are apparently prepared to use violence but I think those groups are banned and I've never come across them personally.

If you want to know the kind of dissident right that I follow then just start listening to AA podcasts, he's a former academic who does about three a week covering current affairs, politics, history, philosophy, arts all from the dissident right perspective with lots of guests from that sphere.....Kind of a Radio 4 for the dissident right.

You will quickly find out that the image that the progressives portray is very much a disfigured one compared to the truth.

[Link]

But like I say, you can't really point to one thing and say it's the 'dissident right' because the term just means it's rejected what the mainstream Tories are today.

There is also what I would call a 'dissident left' as well. I would put say Russell Brand and say Jimmy Dore into that category. They are anti globalist....well, the form of it we get...and anti neo liberalism.

I watch these guys too and while I'm much further to the right in some ways there is considerable crossover in many respects on globalism and other issues. I respect them as good people.....there are a lot of good people on both sides...as someone once said.


Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Nov 2022 11.43pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 22 Nov 22 3.55pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2022 3.56pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View The Dolphin's Profile The Dolphin Flag 22 Nov 22 6.17pm Send a Private Message to The Dolphin Add The Dolphin as a friend

Hunt is a staunch remainer and needs to be publicly slapped down!

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 23 Nov 22 4.50am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

I support an independent inquiry.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 23 Nov 22 8.03am Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I support an independent inquiry.

I like Calvin

 

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