CONservative government incompetence.

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Grumbles 21 Jan 23 3.14pm
I see Tory Party Chairman Nadhim Zahawi says an error in his tax affairs was accepted by HMRC as having been "careless and not deliberate". Surely for an Chancellor you would hope the any error was deliberate and caught rather than pure carelessness. Time for him to go me thinks.
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Grumbles 21 Jan 23 3.14pm

I see Tory Party Chairman Nadhim Zahawi says an error in his tax affairs was accepted by HMRC as having been "careless and not deliberate".

Surely for an Chancellor you would hope the any error was deliberate and caught rather than pure carelessness.

Time for him to go me thinks.

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Grumbles 21 Jan 23 3.24pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Sajid Javid on charging for appointments. [Link] I agree with his point about the religious fervour of some about the NHS the model has to change however I am not convinced about appointment charging. What is the goal? Is it to raise revenue or cut down on missed appointments. Raising revenue: How much will it raise? Is it worth the extra cost of collecting and chasing people who can't pay wont pay. (Would it be a poll tax revolt). He hints that the poor would be protected in other words this is just yet another tax on the middle classes. No Show Appointments: I am sure it will reduce the number of missed appointments but at what cost? There are other ways of doing it. One example: All GP appointments are unconfirmed the patient has to confirm they will be attending e.g. the day before the appointment if not confirmed by a deadline the appointment is released and reused. All of this can be done by technology e.g. automated phone system press 1 to confirm appointment or by web or APP. Conclusion I think missed appointments are a nuisance but are a distraction to the bigger issues of the NHS. If they want to raise revenue then put up income tax. Edited by Badger11 (21 Jan 2023 9.15am) I think the NHS should be free at the point of service, but the direction of the NHS has been hijacked by non essential operations, over-bloat, cutting edge treatment for a small number of persons, and onerous remuneration costs. What it needs to do is demand service for training, change staffing strategies, and increase the use of technology. I know increased tech etc will be critised but the mandarins need to look past the like of Accenture and Capita who consistent do not deliver, and staffing should address the rampant temp market immediately.
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Grumbles 21 Jan 23 3.24pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Sajid Javid on charging for appointments.

[Link]

I agree with his point about the religious fervour of some about the NHS the model has to change however I am not convinced about appointment charging.

What is the goal? Is it to raise revenue or cut down on missed appointments.

Raising revenue:
How much will it raise? Is it worth the extra cost of collecting and chasing people who can't pay wont pay. (Would it be a poll tax revolt). He hints that the poor would be protected in other words this is just yet another tax on the middle classes.

No Show Appointments:
I am sure it will reduce the number of missed appointments but at what cost? There are other ways of doing it.

One example: All GP appointments are unconfirmed the patient has to confirm they will be attending e.g. the day before the appointment if not confirmed by a deadline the appointment is released and reused.

All of this can be done by technology e.g. automated phone system press 1 to confirm appointment or by web or APP.

Conclusion
I think missed appointments are a nuisance but are a distraction to the bigger issues of the NHS. If they want to raise revenue then put up income tax.

Edited by Badger11 (21 Jan 2023 9.15am)

I think the NHS should be free at the point of service, but the direction of the NHS has been hijacked by non essential operations, over-bloat, cutting edge treatment for a small number of persons, and onerous remuneration costs. What it needs to do is demand service for training, change staffing strategies, and increase the use of technology.

I know increased tech etc will be critised but the mandarins need to look past the like of Accenture and Capita who consistent do not deliver, and staffing should address the rampant temp market immediately.

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 21 Jan 23 3.54pm
Some of the Tories seem to find tax affairs,..well,..taxing. The PM's wife who doesn't live in the UK, and now the ex-chancellor. [Link] I thought the important stories regarding tax avoidance were being lost over why the PM was caught not wearing a seatbelt, again. "Tory Party Chairman Nadhim Zahawi says an error in his tax affairs was accepted by HMRC as having been "careless and not deliberate". In a statement, he said he wanted to address "confusion about my finances" after claims he tried to avoid tax and had to pay it back. He said he had chosen to "settle the matter and pay what they said was due, which was the right thing to do". Labour said there was a whole list of questions that still needed answering. The party has called on Mr Zahawi to publish all correspondence with HMRC "so we can get the full picture". According to the Guardian, Mr Zahawi had to pay back tax he owed with a 30% penalty and the total amounts to �4.8m." If joe public made an error with taxes you might be looking at a prison sentence. Those in power really do think they are above the law. Edited by Forest Hillbilly (21 Jan 2023 3.54pm) "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 21 Jan 23 3.54pm

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Some of the Tories seem to find tax affairs,..well,..taxing. The PM's wife who doesn't live in the UK, and now the ex-chancellor.
[Link]

I thought the important stories regarding tax avoidance were being lost over why the PM was caught not wearing a seatbelt, again.

"Tory Party Chairman Nadhim Zahawi says an error in his tax affairs was accepted by HMRC as having been "careless and not deliberate".

In a statement, he said he wanted to address "confusion about my finances" after claims he tried to avoid tax and had to pay it back.

He said he had chosen to "settle the matter and pay what they said was due, which was the right thing to do".

Labour said there was a whole list of questions that still needed answering.

The party has called on Mr Zahawi to publish all correspondence with HMRC "so we can get the full picture".

According to the Guardian, Mr Zahawi had to pay back tax he owed with a 30% penalty and the total amounts to �4.8m."

If joe public made an error with taxes you might be looking at a prison sentence. Those in power really do think they are above the law.

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (21 Jan 2023 3.54pm)

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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Badger11 Beckenham 21 Jan 23 4.39pm
Owe the bank manager �5 he sends in the heavy mob. Owe the bank manager �5m he invites you out to dinner One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 21 Jan 23 4.39pm

Owe the bank manager �5 he sends in the heavy mob. Owe the bank manager �5m he invites you out to dinner

One more point

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cryrst The garden of England 21 Jan 23 5.15pm
Originally posted by becky If they really want to raise revenue, how about a prepay demand from all those overseas health 'tourists' who don't qualify for free treatment and are allowed to walk out without paying because no-one has the time (or inclination) to chase them up? Estimated at between �110 - 208 million a year, would bring in a lot more than missed appointment charges. Heard a story that an American needed urgent care to the tune of about 6k. Once done he was leaving the hospital and got his credit card out to pay and was told they couldn�t take payment but leave an address and we will invoice you, in the USA! Offers are made but the nhs can�t take the payment. This is where the issue might lie.
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cryrst

The garden of England 21 Jan 23 5.15pm

Originally posted by becky

If they really want to raise revenue, how about a prepay demand from all those overseas health 'tourists' who don't qualify for free treatment and are allowed to walk out without paying because no-one has the time (or inclination) to chase them up?

Estimated at between �110 - 208 million a year, would bring in a lot more than missed appointment charges.

Heard a story that an American needed urgent care to the tune of about 6k.
Once done he was leaving the hospital and got his credit card out to pay and was told they couldn�t take payment but leave an address and we will invoice you, in the USA!
Offers are made but the nhs can�t take the payment. This is where the issue might lie.

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Mapletree Croydon 22 Jan 23 12.13am
Originally posted by cryrst Heard a story that an American needed urgent care to the tune of about 6k. Once done he was leaving the hospital and got his credit card out to pay and was told they couldn�t take payment but leave an address and we will invoice you, in the USA! Offers are made but the nhs can�t take the payment. This is where the issue might lie. It is a legal requirement for providers of relevant NHS services to recover the estimated full cost of a course of treatment in advance unless doing so would prevent or delay the provision of immediately necessary or urgent treatment.
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Mapletree

Croydon 22 Jan 23 12.13am

Originally posted by cryrst

It is a legal requirement for providers of relevant NHS services to recover the estimated full cost of a course of treatment in advance unless doing so would prevent or delay the provision of immediately necessary or urgent treatment.

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cryrst The garden of England 22 Jan 23 1.01am
Originally posted by Mapletree It is a legal requirement for providers of relevant NHS services to recover the estimated full cost of a course of treatment in advance unless doing so would prevent or delay the provision of immediately necessary or urgent treatment. Your point being ?
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cryrst

The garden of England 22 Jan 23 1.01am

Originally posted by Mapletree

Your point being ?

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Mapletree Croydon 22 Jan 23 6.01pm
Originally posted by cryrst Your point being ? The Trusts have to have a system in place by law to recover the costs. So I am sceptical about your example, from whence did it come? Maybe it was a one-off if it actually happened at all.
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Mapletree

Croydon 22 Jan 23 6.01pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Your point being ?

The Trusts have to have a system in place by law to recover the costs. So I am sceptical about your example, from whence did it come?

Maybe it was a one-off if it actually happened at all.

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cryrst The garden of England 22 Jan 23 6.48pm
Originally posted by Mapletree The Trusts have to have a system in place by law to recover the costs. So I am sceptical about your example, from whence did it come? Maybe it was a one-off if it actually happened at all. It was a few years ago. When were the rules changed?
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cryrst

The garden of England 22 Jan 23 6.48pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

The Trusts have to have a system in place by law to recover the costs. So I am sceptical about your example, from whence did it come?

Maybe it was a one-off if it actually happened at all.

It was a few years ago. When were the rules changed?

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steeleye20 Croydon 22 Jan 23 8.17pm
The Conservative party seems to be in freefall with perpetual scandal ludicrous ideas and internal bitterness. Now, with Brexit�s promises in tatters and an administration mired in panic and decay, Conservatism has reached the point of being all about its prejudices and paranoia. The latest Zahawi episode is really so routine you can hardly be bothered. I really don't mind a scandal to escape the boredom but it must have some sexual content to keep me awake.
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steeleye20

Croydon 22 Jan 23 8.17pm

The Conservative party seems to be in freefall with perpetual scandal ludicrous ideas and internal bitterness.

Now, with Brexit�s promises in tatters and an administration mired in panic and decay, Conservatism has reached the point of being all about its prejudices and paranoia.

The latest Zahawi episode is really so routine you can hardly be bothered.

I really don't mind a scandal to escape the boredom but it must have some sexual content to keep me awake.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 23 Jan 23 1.06am
Originally posted by steeleye20 The NHS can't take any more reform, Sunak and Starmer are politicians we have seen how they interfere and create problems. We don't need them, we need the NHS. For us, how many of us dread getting ill or an accident I know I do. I've seen instances where patients are waiting four days in corridors it's quite appalling, the staff sh****d out and demoralised. The under-funding of the NHS by the tories is a national disgrace. I assume from your lack of reply you don't work in a hospital. How did you " see the instances " ? If you do work in a hospital then fair enough and as I said before it's appalling anyone should wait 4 days , especially more than once as you state. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 23 Jan 23 1.06am

Originally posted by steeleye20

The NHS can't take any more reform, Sunak and Starmer are politicians we have seen how they interfere and create problems.

We don't need them, we need the NHS.

For us, how many of us dread getting ill or an accident I know I do.

I've seen instances where patients are waiting four days in corridors it's quite appalling, the staff sh****d out and demoralised.

The under-funding of the NHS by the tories is a national disgrace.

I assume from your lack of reply you don't work in a hospital.

How did you " see the instances " ?

If you do work in a hospital then fair enough and as I said before it's appalling anyone should wait 4 days , especially more than once as you state.

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 23 Jan 23 1.12am
Similarly legal requirement to recover fees from overseas students who studied in UK universities. The SLC failed to recover tens of millions. I would doubt much of the medical charges due are recovered. Recovering funds from EU national schemes was supposedly reciprocal with UK people getting treatment in EU countries. I would very much doubt any fees were recovered from non EU users of the NHS. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 23 Jan 23 1.12am

Similarly legal requirement to recover fees from overseas students who studied in UK universities. The SLC failed to recover tens of millions. I would doubt much of the medical charges due are recovered.

Recovering funds from EU national schemes was supposedly reciprocal with UK people getting treatment in EU countries.

I would very much doubt any fees were recovered from non EU users of the NHS.

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