Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?
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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 13 Mar 22 1.36pm |
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Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly
Economists and other luminaries discussing sanctions on the radio yesterday. And lorries of aid, often get intercepted by military/militias, and much of it feeds/assists the fighters. Comparatively little gets to the needy, in spite of what we'd like to think. Just a realistic perspective, in spite of best intentions. Edited by Forest Hillbilly (13 Mar 2022 1.24pm) I think though we have learned some past lessons. Whilst sanctions are always a blunt tool, these have been quite carefully targetted. The oligarchs are being hit, and they are essential to Putin. The central bank has been hit, which will stop Russian reserves being utilised to prop up the ruble. The Swift system has been suspended, which disrupts trade. Social, sporting and cultural ties have been broken. These hurt pride and raise questions, without making people hungry. It might be a slow burner, but I think they will be effective.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 13 Mar 22 1.42pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I think though we have learned some past lessons. Whilst sanctions are always a blunt tool, these have been quite carefully targetted. The oligarchs are being hit, and they are essential to Putin. The central bank has been hit, which will stop Russian reserves being utilised to prop up the ruble. The Swift system has been suspended, which disrupts trade. Social, sporting and cultural ties have been broken. These hurt pride and raise questions, without making people hungry. It might be a slow burner, but I think they will be effective. For once I agree, in the past sanctions didn't work these days they are more targetted. They still might not work but hopefully they don't hurt the public but the elite. Of course some times regimes twist them into their favour. I think it was Saddam (pick your tyrant) but whoever deliberately withheld medical supplies from the public and blamed the west, of course they were never on the sanctions list. It's also about perception, if you sanction Russia the public feel that their country is being threatened and start feeling patriotic. If you target a group of elites the public may not rush to defend them. Boris's speech to the Russian people was an attempt to separate Putin and Co from the rest. I'm not sure there is much more we can do short of war. Edited by Badger11 (13 Mar 2022 1.45pm)
One more point |
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| Palace Old Geezer Midhurst 13 Mar 22 1.54pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I have watched another Oxford Union presentation, which I found interesting, and revealing, from another well known former MI6 insider. As with the one previously linked to, from Sir John Sawyer, this gives a detained, unemotional analysis of the background and thinking that lies behind recent events. This is from Christopher Steele, who I also gave a link to before. That though was only a brief interview. This is very much longer, detailed and wide-ranging. Steele, you will recall, was responsible for the "trump dossier", which he touches on in this presentation and makes a link to what he reported in that and what is happening in Ukraine. He obviously knows what he is talking about. No politics here. Just facts. I recommend it:- Just watched this Wisbech. Thanks for posting. Steele obviously has an in-depth understanding of the complex political issues at play and, like Sawers', his intelligent views are gripping.
Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled. |
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| Stirlingsays Online 13 Mar 22 2.09pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
For once I agree, in the past sanctions didn't work these days they are more targetted. They still might not work but hopefully they don't hurt the public but the elite. Of course some times regimes twist them into their favour. I think it was Saddam (pick your tyrant) but whoever deliberately withheld medical supplies from the public and blamed the west, of course they were never on the sanctions list. It's also about perception, if you sanction Russia the public feel that their country is being threatened and start feeling patriotic. If you target a group of elites the public may not rush to defend them. Boris's speech to the Russian people was an attempt to separate Putin and Co from the rest. I'm not sure there is much more we can do short of war. Edited by Badger11 (13 Mar 2022 1.45pm) The action against banks, businesses and energy is already impacting the common person in the street. Russia media already portrays the west as the enemy in the same way the media is doing to Russia here. These sanctions will have the same affect all sanctions have, they will increase support for the regime. The only point of them is as a bargaining chip to normalise relations......but if they have already re-orientated their economy by that time it becomes pointless. In the meantime we all will suffer....not the elites who plot this path but the already vulnerable, everyone will be downgraded to some extent. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Mar 2022 2.29pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays Online 13 Mar 22 2.21pm |
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If you create a China-Russia block you aren't just creating an undefeatable military problem with more nukes than the west.....no what we are creating is a manufacturing disaster. Russia is a gas and wheat giant.....if you re-orientate their economy to China you solve some of China's problems in relation to western reliance. On the geo-political scale it's a disaster. Taiwan now becomes that much more of a problem. Everything that was warned about over the Democrats taking over looks to be happening. I remember talking about the 'weakness' perception problem and then we had Afghanistan.....if that debacle hadn't happened maybe Ukraine wouldn't have either.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Forest Hillbilly  in a hidey-hole 13 Mar 22 3.12pm |
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Political allies can be formed from any countries Governments. They seek to remain in power by the threat of war, whilst their populations reap the benefit of "The Great Levelling Down".
"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak |
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croydon proud  Any european country i fancy! 13 Mar 22 3.23pm |
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The government are offering £350 for anyone putting up a refugee for a MONTH! This should be for a week, minimum! They pay £200 a night to house someone in a hotel, but offer £12 a day to the public, who will be expected to feed the refugee and use more heating and hot water, unless Gove expects them to go without, its one thing after another! They will blame the public for not allowing more refugees in, saying where will they go? Well. i have a couple of ideas, firstly, put them in those temporary covid hospitals, and secondly, with hm permission which im sure she would be happy to grant, as shes now permenantly in Windsor, put them up in buckingham palace. 350 rooms, all together so easy to do the paperwork, and great pr for her majesty, who, did not deserve a nonse in the family! In fact, lets cut randy some slack, let him bring up the breakfast at 8 am, to each room, no lift allowed, call the refugee sir or madam- with a strict no touching rule!This should keep him busy, and out of trouble, we don"t need him slipping out in the dead of night around windsor, the police have enough on their hands than to covertly follow him around town.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 13 Mar 22 3.35pm |
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Originally posted by croydon proud
The government are offering £350 for anyone putting up a refugee for a MONTH! This should be for a week, minimum! They pay £200 a night to house someone in a hotel, but offer £12 a day to the public, who will be expected to feed the refugee and use more heating and hot water, unless Gove expects them to go without, its one thing after another! They will blame the public for not allowing more refugees in, saying where will they go? Well. i have a couple of ideas, firstly, put them in those temporary covid hospitals, and secondly, with hm permission which im sure she would be happy to grant, as shes now permenantly in Windsor, put them up in buckingham palace. 350 rooms, all together so easy to do the paperwork, and great pr for her majesty, who, did not deserve a nonse in the family! In fact, lets cut randy some slack, let him bring up the breakfast at 8 am, to each room, no lift allowed, call the refugee sir or madam- with a strict no touching rule!This should keep him busy, and out of trouble, we don"t need him slipping out in the dead of night around windsor, the police have enough on their hands than to covertly follow him around town. £350 a week? Good job you aren’t in government.
COYP |
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| Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 13 Mar 22 3.47pm |
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Take in a refugee for £350 a month minimum 6 month term. Reports of a rape of a refugee already in Poland. With food and fuel prices going up daily, it should be £350 a week. Gove already back in a Government job, and f-cking it up. This is a wet-dream scenario for child-abusers and pimps as women and children flee the war zone and leave their men to fight.
"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak |
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| croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 13 Mar 22 3.48pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
£350 a week? Good job you aren’t in government. The way energy and food prices are going up, £350 a month will be swallowed up and surpassed, thats if you expect the refugee to eat of course and bath. And , the government who have done the worst job regarding the refugees in Europe, even Ireland have taken 5500 and counting, want to look good, its all about the press. So, they are paying £200 per hotel night, which is £5600 a month, against my £1400 a month paying £350 a week- a saving of £4200 a month! Still a good job Rudi?
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 13 Mar 22 4.01pm |
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Originally posted by croydon proud
The way energy and food prices are going up, £350 a month will be swallowed up and surpassed, thats if you expect the refugee to eat of course and bath. And , the government who have done the worst job regarding the refugees in Europe, even Ireland have taken 5500 and counting, want to look good, its all about the press. So, they are paying £200 per hotel night, which is £5600 a month, against my £1400 a month paying £350 a week- a saving of £4200 a month! Still a good job Rudi? The hotel costs are insane and £350 per week is still ridiculous. Household costs won’t go up £350 per week and it shouldn’t be to make people profit.
COYP |
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| croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 13 Mar 22 4.08pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
The hotel costs are insane and £350 per week is still ridiculous. Household costs won’t go up £350 per week and it shouldn’t be to make people profit. Wait until the first of April and check your fuel bills! Its not about profit, but £350 a month clearly isn"t enough, lets hope we aren"t next to flee their country-nobody would have us !
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