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December 11 2023 2.49am

Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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View Ouzo Dan's Profile Ouzo Dan 12 Oct 22 10.05am Send a Private Message to Ouzo Dan Add Ouzo Dan as a friend

Once again we're seeing a build up of pro Russian forces in Belarus, something that seems to happen every few months however it's looking like Belarus may well commit this time, Poland is absolutely spoiling for a fight so I can see both getting involved.

Makes sense for the Russians to take the capital & wipe out Ukr leadership.

Russians are pushing hard to take Bakhmut whilst Ukrainian advances have slowed a bit which is understandable considering how much territory the Russians have conceded recently, Ukrainian's will need to resupply the front.
I expect they will take Kherson soon, it's gonna be a blood bath though as Kherson is Norfolk levels of flat with less cover.

 


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View Ouzo Dan's Profile Ouzo Dan 12 Oct 22 10.28am Send a Private Message to Ouzo Dan Add Ouzo Dan as a friend

Meanwhile western governments are buying up radiation sickness drugs & have begun auditing potential & cold war locations for fallout shelters.

The west knows it's pushing it's luck with Russia.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 12 Oct 22 10.33am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Anyone who seriously doesn't think that Nato are heavily involved in directing the Ukrainian side of this conflict then I just don't know what to say to them.

This is Ukraine/Nato v Russia.

There is a shedload of dishonesty and language manipulation to sell people lies and half truths.

No-one at all questions the commitment made by Nato members, which is co-ordinated by Nato itself, to support Ukraine in its resistance to Russian aggression. It's all there, clearly and openly expressed in yesterday's statement:-

[Link]

That though is completely different to Nato being directly involved, which is what you repeatedly claim. They aren't. They are providing support. We don't direct the war. We may provide advice on the best way to direct the war.

We support Palace. Sky provide much of the funding. Neither though manage the team, determine the tactics or employ the players. We share the joy of victories and pain of defeats. The division between support and management is though very clear.

The situation in Ukraine is little different, despite Putin's attempts to portray it otherwise. Those who parrot his claims should feel ashamed of themselves.

 

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View Ouzo Dan's Profile Ouzo Dan 12 Oct 22 11.27am Send a Private Message to Ouzo Dan Add Ouzo Dan as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

No-one at all questions the commitment made by Nato members, which is co-ordinated by Nato itself, to support Ukraine in its resistance to Russian aggression. It's all there, clearly and openly expressed in yesterday's statement:-

[Link]

That though is completely different to Nato being directly involved, which is what you repeatedly claim. They aren't. They are providing support. We don't direct the war. We may provide advice on the best way to direct the war.

We support Palace. Sky provide much of the funding. Neither though manage the team, determine the tactics or employ the players. We share the joy of victories and pain of defeats. The division between support and management is though very clear.

The situation in Ukraine is little different, despite Putin's attempts to portray it otherwise. Those who parrot his claims should feel ashamed of themselves.


Active SAS soldiers were training Ukrainian special forces near Lviv earlier in the war, Ukrainian officials gave the game away & went public with the information including the village it was happening - it's the last time there has been a leak regarding our special forces in Ukraine.

That is an example of NATO being directly involved.


Edited by Ouzo Dan (12 Oct 2022 11.31am)

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 12 Oct 22 11.39am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan


Active SAS soldiers were training Ukrainian special forces near Lviv earlier in the war, Ukrainian officials gave the game away & went public with the information including the village it was happening - it's the last time there has been a leak regarding our special forces in Ukraine.

That is an example of NATO being directly involved.


Edited by Ouzo Dan (12 Oct 2022 11.31am)

It just isn't!

I don't doubt for a moment that it's true, but training people isn't direct involvement. Only if and when they are directly engaged in the fighting does it become that.

If Palace employed a coach on secondment from Barcelona to teach Ayew how to shoot, that doesn't mean that Barcelona will be on the pitch against Leicester.

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 12 Oct 22 11.39am Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

Meanwhile western governments are buying up radiation sickness drugs & have begun auditing potential & cold war locations for fallout shelters.

The west knows it's pushing it's luck with Russia.

I would suggest that both sides are pushing their luck.

Putin can't back down as that will be the end of him domestically.

'The west' can't back down as that will show massive weakness that Putin and others will then look to ruthlessly exploit.

I'm really not sure what the angle is here other than stalemate. You can't expect russia or 'the west' to make concessions publically. Not sure how anyone thinks that either side showing weakness is a realistic play.

All that said there will be constant diplomacy occurring behind the scenes that is where the solution will be found. Not in some grand debilitating public gesture. Won't happen

 


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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 12 Oct 22 11.41am Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan


Active SAS soldiers were training Ukrainian special forces near Lviv earlier in the war, Ukrainian officials gave the game away & went public with the information including the village it was happening - it's the last time there has been a leak regarding our special forces in Ukraine.

That is an example of NATO being directly involved.


Edited by Ouzo Dan (12 Oct 2022 11.31am)

Obviously NATO must have a decent level of involvement. Although I'd be surprised if they were running the show. Contributing and providing strategic as well as material support, sure. As much as Ukraine need that support I don't think it's realistic that Zelenskyy is taking orders without question or having a strategy and mind of his own.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 12 Oct 22 11.46am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I would suggest that both sides are pushing their luck.

Putin can't back down as that will be the end of him domestically.

'The west' can't back down as that will show massive weakness that Putin and others will then look to ruthlessly exploit.

I'm really not sure what the angle is here other than stalemate. You can't expect russia or 'the west' to make concessions publically. Not sure how anyone thinks that either side showing weakness is a realistic play.

All that said there will be constant diplomacy occurring behind the scenes that is where the solution will be found. Not in some grand debilitating public gesture. Won't happen[/quote]

I agree with you.

It would need to be dressed up in clothes that both sides can claim suits them, but that's what skilled negotiators do.

I think as we move towards a winter stalemate, with energy shortages in the west and the cost of living biting, and dissention increasing in Russia, that the diplomacy will stand a chance of success. I hope so.

 

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View Ouzo Dan's Profile Ouzo Dan 12 Oct 22 12.25pm Send a Private Message to Ouzo Dan Add Ouzo Dan as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It just isn't!

I don't doubt for a moment that it's true, but training people isn't direct involvement. Only if and when they are directly engaged in the fighting does it become that.

If Palace employed a coach on secondment from Barcelona to teach Ayew how to shoot, that doesn't mean that Barcelona will be on the pitch against Leicester.

I'm interested to know what your definition of direct involvement is if having boots on the ground training & overseeing raids on Russian assets is not it?

 


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View Ouzo Dan's Profile Ouzo Dan 12 Oct 22 12.30pm Send a Private Message to Ouzo Dan Add Ouzo Dan as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Obviously NATO must have a decent level of involvement. Although I'd be surprised if they were running the show. Contributing and providing strategic as well as material support, sure. As much as Ukraine need that support I don't think it's realistic that Zelenskyy is taking orders without question or having a strategy and mind of his own.

Whilst Ukraine & NATO are separate entities, they have worked together for many years, this war has strengthened those ties.
Ultimately Ukraine has the final say however NATO will put forward their plan & I'm fairly sure Ukraine have acted on those plans more than once.

 


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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 12 Oct 22 12.36pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It just isn't!

I don't doubt for a moment that it's true, but training people isn't direct involvement. Only if and when they are directly engaged in the fighting does it become that.

If Palace employed a coach on secondment from Barcelona to teach Ayew how to shoot, that doesn't mean that Barcelona will be on the pitch against Leicester.

I enjoyed reading that analogy but unfortunately I do not consider it appropriate.

You can't claim to have no involvement in a war if you're training and equipping an army where there is no expectance or obligation for you to do so. You're clearly backing a horse there and providing as much support as possible to see it triumph. In any case, you either presume Russia is trying to take on the world, which makes no sense, and is just using any excuse to do so or you see it as them threatening that action should their plans for Ukraine be disrupted. I strongly think it is the latter. We either get involved as we have and play (the very apt) 'Russian Roulette' with them or don't, see Ukraine fall and brace for any furtherment of this Russian expansion and it's consequences.

A more appropriate analogy would be to say 'it's like Stirling and Wisbech finally having their PPV boxing match. Nicholas91 is claiming he's not involved but has provided Stirling with knuckle duster fitted gloves and trained him with all his pugilistic knowledge and experience (wouldn't take long)'.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 12 Oct 22 12.37pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

I'm interested to know what your definition of direct involvement is if having boots on the ground training & overseeing raids on Russian assets is not it?

Having boots on the battleground, holding and using weapons, is direct involvement.

Having boots on the training ground is not. It's support.

Providing advice is not direct involvement, so I don't image anyone other than a Ukrainian commander "oversees" a raid. They may well get a lot of advice, probably via video link, but that's all.

Nato has been very careful to draw a line, and even more careful not to cross it.

 

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