Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In | RSS Feed
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
---|---|
Once again we're seeing a build up of pro Russian forces in Belarus, something that seems to happen every few months however it's looking like Belarus may well commit this time, Poland is absolutely spoiling for a fight so I can see both getting involved. Makes sense for the Russians to take the capital & wipe out Ukr leadership. Russians are pushing hard to take Bakhmut whilst Ukrainian advances have slowed a bit which is understandable considering how much territory the Russians have conceded recently, Ukrainian's will need to resupply the front.
Sex Panther 60% of the time it works every time |
|
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
---|---|
Meanwhile western governments are buying up radiation sickness drugs & have begun auditing potential & cold war locations for fallout shelters. The west knows it's pushing it's luck with Russia.
Sex Panther 60% of the time it works every time |
|
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() |
---|---|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Anyone who seriously doesn't think that Nato are heavily involved in directing the Ukrainian side of this conflict then I just don't know what to say to them. This is Ukraine/Nato v Russia. There is a shedload of dishonesty and language manipulation to sell people lies and half truths. No-one at all questions the commitment made by Nato members, which is co-ordinated by Nato itself, to support Ukraine in its resistance to Russian aggression. It's all there, clearly and openly expressed in yesterday's statement:- That though is completely different to Nato being directly involved, which is what you repeatedly claim. They aren't. They are providing support. We don't direct the war. We may provide advice on the best way to direct the war. We support Palace. Sky provide much of the funding. Neither though manage the team, determine the tactics or employ the players. We share the joy of victories and pain of defeats. The division between support and management is though very clear. The situation in Ukraine is little different, despite Putin's attempts to portray it otherwise. Those who parrot his claims should feel ashamed of themselves.
|
|
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
---|---|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
No-one at all questions the commitment made by Nato members, which is co-ordinated by Nato itself, to support Ukraine in its resistance to Russian aggression. It's all there, clearly and openly expressed in yesterday's statement:- That though is completely different to Nato being directly involved, which is what you repeatedly claim. They aren't. They are providing support. We don't direct the war. We may provide advice on the best way to direct the war. We support Palace. Sky provide much of the funding. Neither though manage the team, determine the tactics or employ the players. We share the joy of victories and pain of defeats. The division between support and management is though very clear. The situation in Ukraine is little different, despite Putin's attempts to portray it otherwise. Those who parrot his claims should feel ashamed of themselves.
That is an example of NATO being directly involved.
Sex Panther 60% of the time it works every time |
|
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() |
---|---|
Originally posted by Ouzo Dan
That is an example of NATO being directly involved.
It just isn't! I don't doubt for a moment that it's true, but training people isn't direct involvement. Only if and when they are directly engaged in the fighting does it become that. If Palace employed a coach on secondment from Barcelona to teach Ayew how to shoot, that doesn't mean that Barcelona will be on the pitch against Leicester.
|
|
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() |
---|---|
Originally posted by Ouzo Dan
Meanwhile western governments are buying up radiation sickness drugs & have begun auditing potential & cold war locations for fallout shelters. The west knows it's pushing it's luck with Russia. I would suggest that both sides are pushing their luck. Putin can't back down as that will be the end of him domestically. 'The west' can't back down as that will show massive weakness that Putin and others will then look to ruthlessly exploit. I'm really not sure what the angle is here other than stalemate. You can't expect russia or 'the west' to make concessions publically. Not sure how anyone thinks that either side showing weakness is a realistic play. All that said there will be constant diplomacy occurring behind the scenes – that is where the solution will be found. Not in some grand debilitating public gesture. Won't happen
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
|
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() |
---|---|
Originally posted by Ouzo Dan
That is an example of NATO being directly involved.
Obviously NATO must have a decent level of involvement. Although I'd be surprised if they were running the show. Contributing and providing strategic as well as material support, sure. As much as Ukraine need that support I don't think it's realistic that Zelenskyy is taking orders without question or having a strategy and mind of his own.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
|
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() |
---|---|
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
I would suggest that both sides are pushing their luck. Putin can't back down as that will be the end of him domestically. 'The west' can't back down as that will show massive weakness that Putin and others will then look to ruthlessly exploit. I'm really not sure what the angle is here other than stalemate. You can't expect russia or 'the west' to make concessions publically. Not sure how anyone thinks that either side showing weakness is a realistic play. All that said there will be constant diplomacy occurring behind the scenes – that is where the solution will be found. Not in some grand debilitating public gesture. Won't happen[/quote] I agree with you. It would need to be dressed up in clothes that both sides can claim suits them, but that's what skilled negotiators do. I think as we move towards a winter stalemate, with energy shortages in the west and the cost of living biting, and dissention increasing in Russia, that the diplomacy will stand a chance of success. I hope so.
|
|
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
---|---|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It just isn't! I don't doubt for a moment that it's true, but training people isn't direct involvement. Only if and when they are directly engaged in the fighting does it become that. If Palace employed a coach on secondment from Barcelona to teach Ayew how to shoot, that doesn't mean that Barcelona will be on the pitch against Leicester. I'm interested to know what your definition of direct involvement is if having boots on the ground training & overseeing raids on Russian assets is not it?
Sex Panther 60% of the time it works every time |
|
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
---|---|
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Obviously NATO must have a decent level of involvement. Although I'd be surprised if they were running the show. Contributing and providing strategic as well as material support, sure. As much as Ukraine need that support I don't think it's realistic that Zelenskyy is taking orders without question or having a strategy and mind of his own. Whilst Ukraine & NATO are separate entities, they have worked together for many years, this war has strengthened those ties.
Sex Panther 60% of the time it works every time |
|
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() |
---|---|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It just isn't! I don't doubt for a moment that it's true, but training people isn't direct involvement. Only if and when they are directly engaged in the fighting does it become that. If Palace employed a coach on secondment from Barcelona to teach Ayew how to shoot, that doesn't mean that Barcelona will be on the pitch against Leicester. I enjoyed reading that analogy but unfortunately I do not consider it appropriate. You can't claim to have no involvement in a war if you're training and equipping an army where there is no expectance or obligation for you to do so. You're clearly backing a horse there and providing as much support as possible to see it triumph. In any case, you either presume Russia is trying to take on the world, which makes no sense, and is just using any excuse to do so or you see it as them threatening that action should their plans for Ukraine be disrupted. I strongly think it is the latter. We either get involved as we have and play (the very apt) 'Russian Roulette' with them or don't, see Ukraine fall and brace for any furtherment of this Russian expansion and it's consequences. A more appropriate analogy would be to say 'it's like Stirling and Wisbech finally having their PPV boxing match. Nicholas91 is claiming he's not involved but has provided Stirling with knuckle duster fitted gloves and trained him with all his pugilistic knowledge and experience (wouldn't take long)'.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
|
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() |
---|---|
Originally posted by Ouzo Dan
I'm interested to know what your definition of direct involvement is if having boots on the ground training & overseeing raids on Russian assets is not it? Having boots on the battleground, holding and using weapons, is direct involvement. Having boots on the training ground is not. It's support. Providing advice is not direct involvement, so I don't image anyone other than a Ukrainian commander "oversees" a raid. They may well get a lot of advice, probably via video link, but that's all. Nato has been very careful to draw a line, and even more careful not to cross it.
|
|
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2023 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.