Correct. But what you're not expanding on is the knock ons and outcome of that loss, short and long term. And it's not positive.

Of which there are many. It also creates the precedent of a 'West' / Europe that is pretty happy just to roll over when pushed. Listen, both outcomes are negative if we continue on this path vs just letting Ukraine die but ultimately I think keeping Russia honest wins out. Sure the medium term effect is Putin becoming more marginalised but IMO that would happen anyway if NATO etc backed down and let him have his way... he'd just push the envelope more and more until we ended up in this exact situation over another territory or incident.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

While short term I'd agree that this cold war situation requires a lot of sensible people negotiating common sense pathways I'm thinking longer term.....because I regard a cold war as insanity and incompetence.

In fact I still can't quite believe that people who are meant to be at the top of the merit tree think all this is for the best.

Regardless, in the short term I think Nato obviously needs investment as do European countries...This was obvious many years ago but...well there you go...That said personally I regard the idea of Russia rolling its tanks down the streets as make believe musings of the highest order.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

This is the Democrat mainstream position and justification. However, it doesn't fit the facts on the ground.

Answer me this, if Putin's agenda is reclaiming former Russian territory then why hasn't he trained his army for it? He is seventy, he has had a long time to do that.

He would need millions of men, whereas he didn't even have enough to occupy the Ukraine....where apparently he's losing ground to a force of a couple of hundred thousand.

Indeed, even now he's only called up 300, 000 reservists....not millions. If Russia wanted to occupy its former states (some of which are in Nato and would mean nuclear war) then the reality is that he'd need to mass conscript like Stalin did. Putin has criticised Stalin and the Soviet Union many times, going back to that isn't realistic....No, he's focus was always the Ukraine.

I suggest the reality is that the 'Putin's coming for us' is a myth meant to frighten the normies into nodding along.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Oct 2022 3.27am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Pretty much.

Though they tend to be forgetful of the damage and oppression they themselves have done to the satellite states around them.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Oct 2022 9.15pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Very western centric. Bigger than all of those is Genghis Khan.

Too extreme

My point is that he appears to be always looking for an opportunity to do so, and when one arises, he takes it. If he made it his no1 reason for being that would be both impractical, tank his economy and probably his position and also start WWIII

It's part of his agenda. Not the sole agenda. Two very different things

He's not coming for anyone, really. Just looking to exploit opportunities to bang the imperialist drum and nick a few sq miles of soviet territory back when he can. Keeps the strongman thing alive, and he's not got much else to cling to now.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.