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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 14 Feb 22 11.00pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yep and Stalin committed his own geocide of the Ukrainians, the Holodomor, killed millions (A United Nations joint statement signed by 25 countries in 2003 declared that 7–10 million perished...though it's probably around 5 million) and hardly anyone, outside of people interested in the period, know anything about it....which tells you something.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Feb 2022 10.58pm)

A bit like the Brits doing the starvation-genocide on the Irish in the 1840s.

Stalin or Lord Trevelyan....who is the bigger c..nt ?

 


the 'Net-We-had' at the Etihad....again

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 14 Feb 22 11.17pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

A bit like the Brits doing the starvation-genocide on the Irish in the 1840s.

Stalin or Lord Trevelyan....who is the bigger c..nt ?


The Irish famine killed no more than 500 thousand probably closer to 400. I heard that was due to the 'Great Frost' destroying the crops rather than the British deliberately killing Irish. Once the better weather returned the famine was over.

Where's the evidence that the British set out to starve the Irish?

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Feb 2022 11.27pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 14 Feb 22 11.59pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


The Irish famine killed no more than 500 thousand probably closer to 400. I heard that was due to the 'Great Frost' destroying the crops rather than the British deliberately killing Irish. Once the better weather returned the famine was over.

Where's the evidence that the British set out to starve the Irish?

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Feb 2022 11.27pm)

I’m reluctant to go into detail here Sterling as I may end up providing incorrect facts, contradicting myself etc.

However, whilst there were several natural inflictions upon Irish agriculture I was very much under the impression the British still considered Ireland as its ‘bread basket’. There was far more food being exported to Britain than that which actually remained in Ireland whilst the people starved to death, hence there is sufficient evidence to suggest it was a starvation as opposed to a famine.

Again, from what I can remember (which is limited and questionable to be generous) I thought it was generally accepted that there was still a sufficient supply of food within the country to avoid a tragedy however as previously stated it did not stay there.

I was also very much under the impression the resultant loss of life was evident of complete neglect from the British as opposed to a deliberate attempt to cull a population such as which we have seen through the Holocaust, Stalin’s purges, Pol Pots despotic regime or indeed your specialist subject the Holodomor (very much a joke) let alone that seen in Africa and the America’s.

Always happy to be corrected if wrong was just my recollection of my again distant studenting days (yes I made that word up for my own amusement)

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 15 Feb 22 12.23am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


Where's the evidence that the British set out to starve the Irish?

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Feb 2022 11.27pm)

the national archives at Kew.

Damning evidence. Including piling in the army into the stricken countryside to ensure nobody interfered with the harvest for export.

Ukraine something similar under Stalin. Hunger as a weapon.

Putin is talking of cutting off the Gas Supply....its all an old story.

follow the link...

[Link]

Edited by PalazioVecchio (15 Feb 2022 12.32am)

 


the 'Net-We-had' at the Etihad....again

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 15 Feb 22 12.34am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I’m reluctant to go into detail here Sterling as I may end up providing incorrect facts, contradicting myself etc.

However, whilst there were several natural inflictions upon Irish agriculture I was very much under the impression the British still considered Ireland as its ‘bread basket’. There was far more food being exported to Britain than that which actually remained in Ireland whilst the people starved to death, hence there is sufficient evidence to suggest it was a starvation as opposed to a famine.

Again, from what I can remember (which is limited and questionable to be generous) I thought it was generally accepted that there was still a sufficient supply of food within the country to avoid a tragedy however as previously stated it did not stay there.

I was also very much under the impression the resultant loss of life was evident of complete neglect from the British as opposed to a deliberate attempt to cull a population such as which we have seen through the Holocaust, Stalin’s purges, Pol Pots despotic regime or indeed your specialist subject the Holodomor (very much a joke) let alone that seen in Africa and the America’s.

Always happy to be corrected if wrong was just my recollection of my again distant studenting days (yes I made that word up for my own amusement)

Looking into this it does appear that later British responses to the famines caused by bad weather and potato blight has some responsibility for the extent of the famine....but they didn't cause them.

Unlike the genocides, where the Germans or Russians deliberately decided to kill or starve people this was not a deliberate British plan for the Irish but was weather causing crop failure and potato blight. Once the weather and blight were over so was the famine.

While it seems to be a legitimate complaint for the Irish to have as they were part of the British empire at the time and should have been treated better, it was not a genocide of the Irish.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Feb 2022 12.36am)

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 15 Feb 22 12.41am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

the national archives at Kew.

Damning evidence. Including piling in the army into the stricken countryside to ensure nobody interfered with the harvest for export.

Ukraine something similar under Stalin. Hunger as a weapon.

Putin is talking of cutting off the Gas Supply....its all an old story.

follow the link...

[Link]

Edited by PalazioVecchio (15 Feb 2022 12.32am)

That's a link to a hundred and eight minute video!

Here's a link to the Wikipedia article on it....Wikipedia being edited by leftists who are no fan of the British seem pretty balanced....with the famines of 45-52 being considered worse.

[Link]

It's not at all similar, I completely disagree with that.


Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Feb 2022 12.58am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 15 Feb 22 12.42am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Looking into this it does appear that later British responses to the famines caused by bad weather and potato blight has some responsibility for the extent of the famine....but they didn't cause them.

Unlike the genocides, where the Germans or Russians deliberately decided to kill or starve people this was not a deliberate British plan for the Irish but was weather causing crop failure and potato blight. Once the weather and blight were over so was the famine.

While it seems to be a legitimate complaint for the Irish to have as they were part of the British empire at the time and should have been treated better, it was not a genocide of the Irish.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Feb 2022 12.36am)

pre Famine the island had 8 million inhabitants. This plummeted during the Famine and in the breakdown of society thereafter.

[Link]

 


the 'Net-We-had' at the Etihad....again

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 15 Feb 22 12.44am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

pre Famine the island had 8 million inhabitants. This plummeted during the Famine and in the breakdown of society thereafter.

[Link]

That seems like anti British propaganda to me.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 15 Feb 22 12.51am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

That seems like anti British propaganda to me.

no other country in Europe had an equivalent drop in population

[Link]
.
.
[Link]

Edited by PalazioVecchio (15 Feb 2022 12.53am)

 


the 'Net-We-had' at the Etihad....again

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 15 Feb 22 12.55am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

no other country in Europe had an equivalent drop in population

[Link]

No other country in Europe relied upon the potato as much as the Irish...especially the poorer section.

If the British had wanted to starve the Irish they wouldn't have introduced the newly developed fertilizers in the 1880s....which rapidly reduced potato blight.

A fair amount of the later decline in population size is due to migration.

Anti British propaganda from Irish republicans isn't hard to find, but that doesn't mean it's balanced.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Feb 2022 12.57am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 15 Feb 22 1.00am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

No other country in Europe relied upon the potato as much as the Irish...especially the poorer section.

If the British had wanted to starve the Irish they wouldn't have introduced the newly developed fertilizers in the 1880s....which rapidly reduced potato blight.

Anti British propaganda from Irish republicans isn't hard to find, but that doesn't mean it's balanced.

as an Eagle, you will find zero affection for the modern 'RA and the Lefty Shinners here.

If a Ukranian says Stalin starved them, is that just propaganda ?

Famine may start with environmental problems....but it is always a political outcome.

Biafra was pure politics.

 


the 'Net-We-had' at the Etihad....again

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 15 Feb 22 1.17am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

as an Eagle, you will find zero affection for the modern 'RA and the Lefty Shinners here.

If a Ukranian says Stalin starved them, is that just propaganda ?

Famine may start with environmental problems....but it is always a political outcome.

Biafra was pure politics.


If the Ukraine had undergoing a blight of crop failure and then blamed it on the Russians, yes that would be propaganda.

That didn't happen in the Ukraine, the Russians deliberately collectivised the farms and knew precisely what was happening.

There was no environmental cause to the Holodomor. It was an entirely man made genocide. That's been officially recognised worldwide at the UN....with the Russians signing.

The Irish famines weren't caused by the British, that's just factual. I don't think this absolves the British of some responsibility in later governance.

From what I've looked at that's my honest appraisal.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Feb 2022 1.20am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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