You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Starmer & Rayner
May 26 2022 2.39am

Starmer & Rayner

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 8 of 10 < 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 >

 

View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 09 May 22 10.15pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Not writing the rules is an odd defence. Not many people accused of any misdemeanours wrote the rules either.

It is the poorest defence of all. You could argue that Downing street is Boris Johnsons place of work. Hence his defence had some credibility. But a constituency office in Durham?

If Johnson got fined, based on the law as it was, then I really struggle to see how Starmer escapes. It's the pre-planning of the evening meal that nails him. Clearly not a spontaneous act.

 


In 1967, when Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take human life, replied: "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed communists."

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 09 May 22 10.54pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Not writing the rules is an odd defence. Not many people accused of any misdemeanours wrote the rules either.

It's not meant to be a defence! It's a fact, though, which matters in the political arena in which they both work.

It wouldn't count in a court of law, but it could in the court of public opinion.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 09 May 22 11.00pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

It is the poorest defence of all. You could argue that Downing street is Boris Johnsons place of work. Hence his defence had some credibility. But a constituency office in Durham?

If Johnson got fined, based on the law as it was, then I really struggle to see how Starmer escapes. It's the pre-planning of the evening meal that nails him. Clearly not a spontaneous act.

Downing St isn't Johnson's only place of work, is it? Nor is it, only his place of work.

The primary difference was though that what was organised there has been clearly regarded as being "parties". Social gatherings to mark a departure, or celebrate an event.

Starmer was there to campaign. Eating at the end of a day, with those involved, isn't a party.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 09 May 22 11.26pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

You clearly have not researched this. The use of the campaigning get-out still comes with the proviso of it being only with one other person.

Starmer was eating with people, in a pre-planned meal, at the end of a day of campaigning. That most clearly falls outside of the law. As I said, lunch could be excused but why would eating a meal in such a large gathering at the end of the day be justified?

Makes little sense. His only defence is the same one that Johnson claimed in that the gathering was a work-related one. And we know how that ended.

Are you able to provide a link to the regulations as they applied at the time?

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 09 May 22 11.30pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

It is not about whether or not any of the events. were a " party ".

It is about whether or not the breached the rules in force at the time.

Starmer is cynically gambling the Durham police will their precedent of not issuing a fine on a first offence, rather a warning.

It is quite pathetic all round on both parties that in a time of significant crisis the political bandwidth is being expended on the semantics of what is a party and whether one tweet past a certain time is enough to constitute work

 


If untruths and bllshit are allowed to flourish unchallenged the forum will be the worse for it.

Opinions are not facts just because you believe them

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Tim Gypsy Hill '64's Profile Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 10 May 22 12.56am Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

It is not about whether or not any of the events. were a " party ".

It is about whether or not the breached the rules in force at the time.

Starmer is cynically gambling the Durham police will their precedent of not issuing a fine on a first offence, rather a warning.

It is quite pathetic all round on both parties that in a time of significant crisis the political bandwidth is being expended on the semantics of what is a party and whether one tweet past a certain time is enough to constitute work

And also, who really gives a hoot? The biggest noise is from the left. Screaming "Daily Mail" slur, diversion tactics, etc. The voters couldn't give a damn. If Starmer gets a fine, he will resign, he has no choice now, but the idiot in charge will continue to be PM.

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 10 May 22 1.31am Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64

And also, who really gives a hoot? The biggest noise is from the left. Screaming "Daily Mail" slur, diversion tactics, etc. The voters couldn't give a damn. If Starmer gets a fine, he will resign, he has no choice now, but the idiot in charge will continue to be PM.

Well he certainly 'had' a choice, but in resigning if he's fined it will put more pressure on Boris for his lack of integrity and will rid Labour of a leader that isn't particularly the man of the moment either.

A clever move really. If the deflecting and finger pointing at Starmer leads to him going the pressure is on Bojo to go also, and if he's exonerated it's hot air, rather than the numerous gov parties we know about. Either way, Boris staying or going is made to look weak.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 10 May 22 6.10am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Are you able to provide a link to the regulations as they applied at the time?

[Link]


With this as the specific part as I believe it relates to what Starmer has done...

You should not meet with other campaigners indoors. It is safer to meet outdoors, where the risk of catching or spreading COVID-19 is much lower, but 2 metre social distancing should still be maintained. Operational collection and delivery of campaign literature should be handled on a click and drop or doorstep drop procedure as for other goods deliveries during the pandemic. Only rarely will two people be required indoors at the same location to manage bulk delivery handling. You should keep these interactions to a minimum to reduce contact and follow the guidance on how to stop the spread of coronavirus at all times

As far as my non-qualified understanding of the law is, this negates any claims about necking a curry with a load of other people from your political party as being an intrinsic part of campaigning but, as always, happy to be corrected.

 


In 1967, when Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take human life, replied: "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed communists."

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 10 May 22 7.21am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

It is not about whether or not any of the events. were a " party ".

It is about whether or not the breached the rules in force at the time.

Starmer is cynically gambling the Durham police will their precedent of not issuing a fine on a first offence, rather a warning.

It is quite pathetic all round on both parties that in a time of significant crisis the political bandwidth is being expended on the semantics of what is a party and whether one tweet past a certain time is enough to constitute work

Exactly if he is guilty he will receive a ticking off same as Cummings did. He can then say that's not the same as a fine so not guilty. It's a lawyers trick.

If he is guilty of course.

 


One more point

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 10 May 22 8.49am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Yes, Starmer is being quite slippery here. Breaking the rules he does not see as resign worthy unless a fine ensues.

If he is fined then the left will cry foul and political decision.

 


If untruths and bllshit are allowed to flourish unchallenged the forum will be the worse for it.

Opinions are not facts just because you believe them

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 10 May 22 9.26am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

[Link]


With this as the specific part as I believe it relates to what Starmer has done...

You should not meet with other campaigners indoors. It is safer to meet outdoors, where the risk of catching or spreading COVID-19 is much lower, but 2 metre social distancing should still be maintained. Operational collection and delivery of campaign literature should be handled on a click and drop or doorstep drop procedure as for other goods deliveries during the pandemic. Only rarely will two people be required indoors at the same location to manage bulk delivery handling. You should keep these interactions to a minimum to reduce contact and follow the guidance on how to stop the spread of coronavirus at all times

As far as my non-qualified understanding of the law is, this negates any claims about necking a curry with a load of other people from your political party as being an intrinsic part of campaigning but, as always, happy to be corrected.

It seems that was updated. This is from the BBC:-

"On 30 April, England was under "Step 2" rules, which had been introduced on 12 April.

Gathering indoors with people from outside your household or support bubble was against the law.

There was an exemption for "work purposes", although working from home was recommended in the guidance, but the rules did not mention socialising at work.

And there was an exemption if "the gathering is reasonably necessary for the purposes of campaigning in an election"."

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 10 May 22 9.39am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

[Link]


With this as the specific part as I believe it relates to what Starmer has done...

You should not meet with other campaigners indoors. It is safer to meet outdoors, where the risk of catching or spreading COVID-19 is much lower, but 2 metre social distancing should still be maintained. Operational collection and delivery of campaign literature should be handled on a click and drop or doorstep drop procedure as for other goods deliveries during the pandemic. Only rarely will two people be required indoors at the same location to manage bulk delivery handling. You should keep these interactions to a minimum to reduce contact and follow the guidance on how to stop the spread of coronavirus at all times

As far as my non-qualified understanding of the law is, this negates any claims about necking a curry with a load of other people from your political party as being an intrinsic part of campaigning but, as always, happy to be corrected.

No, not these regulations. Those that apply to employees at their work place please.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

 

Page 8 of 10 < 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Starmer & Rayner