Starmer & Rayner
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 Matov  09 May 22 10.15pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Not writing the rules is an odd defence. Not many people accused of any misdemeanours wrote the rules either. It is the poorest defence of all. You could argue that Downing street is Boris Johnsons place of work. Hence his defence had some credibility. But a constituency office in Durham? If Johnson got fined, based on the law as it was, then I really struggle to see how Starmer escapes. It's the pre-planning of the evening meal that nails him. Clearly not a spontaneous act.
In 1967, when Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take human life, replied: "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed communists." |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 May 22 10.54pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Not writing the rules is an odd defence. Not many people accused of any misdemeanours wrote the rules either. It's not meant to be a defence! It's a fact, though, which matters in the political arena in which they both work. It wouldn't count in a court of law, but it could in the court of public opinion.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 May 22 11.00pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
It is the poorest defence of all. You could argue that Downing street is Boris Johnsons place of work. Hence his defence had some credibility. But a constituency office in Durham? If Johnson got fined, based on the law as it was, then I really struggle to see how Starmer escapes. It's the pre-planning of the evening meal that nails him. Clearly not a spontaneous act. Downing St isn't Johnson's only place of work, is it? Nor is it, only his place of work. The primary difference was though that what was organised there has been clearly regarded as being "parties". Social gatherings to mark a departure, or celebrate an event. Starmer was there to campaign. Eating at the end of a day, with those involved, isn't a party.
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| Mapletree Croydon 09 May 22 11.26pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
You clearly have not researched this. The use of the campaigning get-out still comes with the proviso of it being only with one other person. Starmer was eating with people, in a pre-planned meal, at the end of a day of campaigning. That most clearly falls outside of the law. As I said, lunch could be excused but why would eating a meal in such a large gathering at the end of the day be justified? Makes little sense. His only defence is the same one that Johnson claimed in that the gathering was a work-related one. And we know how that ended. Are you able to provide a link to the regulations as they applied at the time?
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HKOwen  Hong Kong 09 May 22 11.30pm |
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It is not about whether or not any of the events. were a " party ". It is about whether or not the breached the rules in force at the time. Starmer is cynically gambling the Durham police will their precedent of not issuing a fine on a first offence, rather a warning. It is quite pathetic all round on both parties that in a time of significant crisis the political bandwidth is being expended on the semantics of what is a party and whether one tweet past a certain time is enough to constitute work
If untruths and bllshit are allowed to flourish unchallenged the forum will be the worse for it. Opinions are not facts just because you believe them |
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| Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Stoke sub normal 10 May 22 12.56am |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
It is not about whether or not any of the events. were a " party ". It is about whether or not the breached the rules in force at the time. Starmer is cynically gambling the Durham police will their precedent of not issuing a fine on a first offence, rather a warning. It is quite pathetic all round on both parties that in a time of significant crisis the political bandwidth is being expended on the semantics of what is a party and whether one tweet past a certain time is enough to constitute work And also, who really gives a hoot? The biggest noise is from the left. Screaming "Daily Mail" slur, diversion tactics, etc. The voters couldn't give a damn. If Starmer gets a fine, he will resign, he has no choice now, but the idiot in charge will continue to be PM.
Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers |
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BlueJay  UK 10 May 22 1.31am |
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Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64
And also, who really gives a hoot? The biggest noise is from the left. Screaming "Daily Mail" slur, diversion tactics, etc. The voters couldn't give a damn. If Starmer gets a fine, he will resign, he has no choice now, but the idiot in charge will continue to be PM. Well he certainly 'had' a choice, but in resigning if he's fined it will put more pressure on Boris for his lack of integrity and will rid Labour of a leader that isn't particularly the man of the moment either. A clever move really. If the deflecting and finger pointing at Starmer leads to him going the pressure is on Bojo to go also, and if he's exonerated it's hot air, rather than the numerous gov parties we know about. Either way, Boris staying or going is made to look weak.
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| Matov 10 May 22 6.10am |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Are you able to provide a link to the regulations as they applied at the time?
You should not meet with other campaigners indoors. It is safer to meet outdoors, where the risk of catching or spreading COVID-19 is much lower, but 2 metre social distancing should still be maintained. Operational collection and delivery of campaign literature should be handled on a click and drop or doorstep drop procedure as for other goods deliveries during the pandemic. Only rarely will two people be required indoors at the same location to manage bulk delivery handling. You should keep these interactions to a minimum to reduce contact and follow the guidance on how to stop the spread of coronavirus at all times As far as my non-qualified understanding of the law is, this negates any claims about necking a curry with a load of other people from your political party as being an intrinsic part of campaigning but, as always, happy to be corrected.
In 1967, when Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take human life, replied: "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed communists." |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 10 May 22 7.21am |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
It is not about whether or not any of the events. were a " party ". It is about whether or not the breached the rules in force at the time. Starmer is cynically gambling the Durham police will their precedent of not issuing a fine on a first offence, rather a warning. It is quite pathetic all round on both parties that in a time of significant crisis the political bandwidth is being expended on the semantics of what is a party and whether one tweet past a certain time is enough to constitute work Exactly if he is guilty he will receive a ticking off same as Cummings did. He can then say that's not the same as a fine so not guilty. It's a lawyers trick. If he is guilty of course.
One more point |
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| HKOwen Hong Kong 10 May 22 8.49am |
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Yes, Starmer is being quite slippery here. Breaking the rules he does not see as resign worthy unless a fine ensues. If he is fined then the left will cry foul and political decision.
If untruths and bllshit are allowed to flourish unchallenged the forum will be the worse for it. Opinions are not facts just because you believe them |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 10 May 22 9.26am |
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Originally posted by Matov
You should not meet with other campaigners indoors. It is safer to meet outdoors, where the risk of catching or spreading COVID-19 is much lower, but 2 metre social distancing should still be maintained. Operational collection and delivery of campaign literature should be handled on a click and drop or doorstep drop procedure as for other goods deliveries during the pandemic. Only rarely will two people be required indoors at the same location to manage bulk delivery handling. You should keep these interactions to a minimum to reduce contact and follow the guidance on how to stop the spread of coronavirus at all times As far as my non-qualified understanding of the law is, this negates any claims about necking a curry with a load of other people from your political party as being an intrinsic part of campaigning but, as always, happy to be corrected. It seems that was updated. This is from the BBC:- "On 30 April, England was under "Step 2" rules, which had been introduced on 12 April. Gathering indoors with people from outside your household or support bubble was against the law. There was an exemption for "work purposes", although working from home was recommended in the guidance, but the rules did not mention socialising at work. And there was an exemption if "the gathering is reasonably necessary for the purposes of campaigning in an election"."
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| Mapletree Croydon 10 May 22 9.39am |
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Originally posted by Matov
You should not meet with other campaigners indoors. It is safer to meet outdoors, where the risk of catching or spreading COVID-19 is much lower, but 2 metre social distancing should still be maintained. Operational collection and delivery of campaign literature should be handled on a click and drop or doorstep drop procedure as for other goods deliveries during the pandemic. Only rarely will two people be required indoors at the same location to manage bulk delivery handling. You should keep these interactions to a minimum to reduce contact and follow the guidance on how to stop the spread of coronavirus at all times As far as my non-qualified understanding of the law is, this negates any claims about necking a curry with a load of other people from your political party as being an intrinsic part of campaigning but, as always, happy to be corrected. No, not these regulations. Those that apply to employees at their work place please.
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