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November 27 2022 6.12pm

Eddie Jones Rugby Union and public schools

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View ex hibitionist's Profile ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 16 Aug 22 1.16pm Send a Private Message to ex hibitionist Add ex hibitionist as a friend

Nice one Eddie - apparently a few years back when Sam Burgess, a world class Rugby League player, was in the England union squad, there was snobbery against him, part of why he didn't fit in. Posh schools play wugger, state schools play footy, tennis is middle class, golf used to be!!! What's the relevance? Go back to when English clubs returned to European competition after the Heysel ban - our managers were builders the foreign managers were architects. The likes of Pep, Wenger, Klopp and Tuchel bring high intellect into our game - people talk of a class system over here but it can be a class culture where middle class people lapse into lazy superiority against those who seem less well educated, and where working class people perceive intelligence as pretentious or unrealistic. Outsiders like Eddie Jones can see the limiting impact of class snobbery that is more engrained in Britain than elsewhere - I think it's why we don't excel or innovate in certain areas, sport is one, manufacturing is another. Harry Redknapp has said the FA is full of academics who don't get football - many of them probably prefer rugby, but only the union version, rugby league is 'non-U'.

 

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View Palace Old Geezer's Profile Palace Old Geezer Flag Midhurst 16 Aug 22 2.16pm Send a Private Message to Palace Old Geezer Add Palace Old Geezer as a friend

Seems to me that Jones was trying to divert attention away from his own failings.

The clue is in the name. The national game which he is privileged to coach, originated in a public school in Warwickshire called Rugby.

Some of the finest players of the game were educated privately. His comments were misguided and ill-informed. Recent results under his stewardship have been poor and has nothing to do with where his players were educated.

There must be an English coach who could do a better job.

 


Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

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View eagleman13's Profile eagleman13 Flag On The Road To Hell & Alicante 16 Aug 22 2.58pm Send a Private Message to eagleman13 Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add eagleman13 as a friend

Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer

Seems to me that Jones was trying to divert attention away from his own failings.

The clue is in the name. The national game which he is privileged to coach, originated in a public school in Warwickshire called Rugby.

Some of the finest players of the game were educated privately. His comments were misguided and ill-informed. Recent results under his stewardship have been poor and has nothing to do with where his players were educated.

There must be an English coach who could do a better job.

(Sir) Clive Woodward?

 


The Child Has Grown,
The Dream Is Gone, And,
I Have Become,
Comfortably Numb. . . .
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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 16 Aug 22 9.00pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by eagleman13

(Sir) Clive Woodward?

Farrell, Baxter
Other shouts: Pat Lam, Ronan O'Gara, Mark McCall, Erasmus.

Anybody but Jones basically. (Except Gatland Gatland = Jones mk 2).

 


Patrick Vieira's
Red and Blue Army!

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View ex hibitionist's Profile ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 17 Aug 22 10.51am Send a Private Message to ex hibitionist Add ex hibitionist as a friend

we don't produce top coaches in rugby or football - we don't innovate in major sports, I think it's down to a lack of meritocracy fuelled by an easy route to feeling superior from public school status. Rugby has independent school origins - but that was 200 years ago, football has more working class origins, but we are talking 19th century. One example, the great comedy actor Leonard Rossiter had trials at Everton when he was 14, but he was discouraged from pursuing a career in football because he was a grammar school boy and football was considered a step down. Sometimes a minor example can reveal a lot. Another example is the fact there was a 77 year gap between the Wimbledon triumphs of Fred Perry and Andy Murray. Up until 10 or 15 years ago players had to bow to the royal box coming off centre court - I think those two facts are intimately related, not a coincidence a direct causal link. Viva la Republique, sovereignty for the people, Mick Lynch for PM. Eddie Jones is failing? We didn't do too bad in Eddie's back yard lately, and he's timing things for the World Cup, a massive step up on Stuart Lancaster but people stay loyal to some prehistoric form of patriotism. Be good if the edifying quality in private schools was also diercted at the state sector - then we might start to compete with Germans, Australians, pakistanis and Spaniards, or other modern countries where intelligence and talent is rated higher than 'poshness'. I'm not saying Stuart Lancaster was chosen for his poshness btw, but look at the FA's attitude towards Venables and Redknapp, and how gentleman Roy was chosen over Harry for the England job. That's what Eddie was pointing at I think, and I think he's spot on.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 17 Aug 22 1.25pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

we don't produce top coaches in rugby or football - we don't innovate in major sports, I think it's down to a lack of meritocracy fuelled by an easy route to feeling superior from public school status. Rugby has independent school origins - but that was 200 years ago, football has more working class origins, but we are talking 19th century. One example, the great comedy actor Leonard Rossiter had trials at Everton when he was 14, but he was discouraged from pursuing a career in football because he was a grammar school boy and football was considered a step down. Sometimes a minor example can reveal a lot. Another example is the fact there was a 77 year gap between the Wimbledon triumphs of Fred Perry and Andy Murray. Up until 10 or 15 years ago players had to bow to the royal box coming off centre court - I think those two facts are intimately related, not a coincidence a direct causal link. Viva la Republique, sovereignty for the people, Mick Lynch for PM. Eddie Jones is failing? We didn't do too bad in Eddie's back yard lately, and he's timing things for the World Cup, a massive step up on Stuart Lancaster but people stay loyal to some prehistoric form of patriotism. Be good if the edifying quality in private schools was also diercted at the state sector - then we might start to compete with Germans, Australians, pakistanis and Spaniards, or other modern countries where intelligence and talent is rated higher than 'poshness'. I'm not saying Stuart Lancaster was chosen for his poshness btw, but look at the FA's attitude towards Venables and Redknapp, and how gentleman Roy was chosen over Harry for the England job. That's what Eddie was pointing at I think, and I think he's spot on.

Except that Andy Farrell and Stuart Lancaster are at more successful teams than England, or any English teams. Also Baxter has European success, basically from nowhere. They're every bit the equivalent of coaches like Jones. I suspect all would do better. We will see in not too long when Jones gets the boot. However, going the Gatland route (which I reckon England will do) will be exactly the same as Jones with everyone scratching their heads as to why. It will be because there is a new rugby style in town and those guys are still into smashing everyone up, including their own. It's not exactly a surprise when you see other teams running and passing and trying things and England losing still trying to smash it up the middle.

 


Patrick Vieira's
Red and Blue Army!

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