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October 4 2022 4.50pm

Crystal Palace vs Brentford - Match Thread

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View Lanzo-Ad's Profile Lanzo-Ad Online Flag Lanzarote 01 Sep 22 12.39pm Send a Private Message to Lanzo-Ad Add Lanzo-Ad as a friend

Originally posted by mtp1958

need to ask what standard of football did you play Lanzo , because I was semi pro for a short period back in the late 70s early 80s but found the players to clicky and went back to playing business house lge , but same rules apply what ever standard you play , brentford had put on a all out attack to get level , because i can see it now , they score and then get the winner people would have being shouting why didnt we bring on more defence , for me PV was right players didnt do there job in defence and it is basic defending 101

What does standard of football played have anything to do with it,
ask Mourinho or Hodgson, or even Wilf

 


I remember Paris in '49, The Champs Elysee, Saint Michel And old Beaujolais wine, And I recall that you were mine, In those Parisienne days


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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 01 Sep 22 12.44pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by mtp1958

need to correct you there the goal come from CBs not doing there job nothing todo with PV, as a ex defender the CBs are the ones in charge of the back line , i played left back and the CBs would tell me what to do while they commanded the center , both our CBs got build out of position by not looking around them , so the blame comes down to players forgetting there jobs and nothing else

I understand your point and it's weight however I don' think the buck stops with the CBs.

Fact of the matter is PV's changes invited pressure on to us which was not there previously and if he wanted the team to defend a certain way, under that pressure, it is his job to ensure they are well coached and quite frankly understand whether the players he selected are competent to do what he asked, otherwise he'd be asking them to do something he knows they cannot.

If you're gonna blame the CB's for not doing their job I'd ask why Brentford had not scored more goals in the match... or even came close. They had about 4 opportunities to score towards the end as we had no 'out ball' and the defence looked confused and disorientated by the changes made.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View Lanzo-Ad's Profile Lanzo-Ad Online Flag Lanzarote 01 Sep 22 12.49pm Send a Private Message to Lanzo-Ad Add Lanzo-Ad as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I understand your point and it's weight however I don' think the buck stops with the CBs.

Fact of the matter is PV's changes invited pressure on to us which was not there previously and if he wanted the team to defend a certain way, under that pressure, it is his job to ensure they are well coached and quite frankly understand whether the players he selected are competent to do what he asked, otherwise he'd be asking them to do something he knows they cannot.

If you're gonna blame the CB's for not doing their job I'd ask why Brentford had not scored more goals in the match... or even came close. They had about 4 opportunities to score towards the end as we had no 'out ball' and the defence looked confused and disorientated by the changes made.

Correct

 


I remember Paris in '49, The Champs Elysee, Saint Michel And old Beaujolais wine, And I recall that you were mine, In those Parisienne days


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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 01 Sep 22 1.17pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by adelaar

I sense a lot of fans on here agree that when Luka comes on now it just fills you with dread. You should not feel that about a player, knowing he has a mistake or a bad performance in him.
Happy to be proved wrong this season but I suspect come the seasons end in May they'll be plenty of evidence to prove the case.
His crossfield pass in an attack fired well over for a goal kick.
Chickened out of a 50-50 in the middle of the park allowing a break. I could go on. We see it all far too often in his performances. A few years ago he was the first name on the teamsheet It's just hard to take to see his sharp decline.

This whole argument seemed to start when I said we would have been better off bringing on Phillips. I didn't actually slate Luka - but a lot of your post resonates with me.
He was our best player for a while. It seems to me he's been below average ever since that COVID party a couple of years ago now. It's a shame to see him a shadow of his former glory and being used as a sub in a difficult situation. Kind of a no win situation for him.
My point about Phillips is - if he'd made a mistake, it's understandable, he's young, he can learn from it. If he does well - bonus, new squad player. Alternatively, Luka comes on, does badly - gets slated. We expect more from a seasoned pro and club captain. He's not delivering - he's going to get told that. Luka comes on, does well, not much to say - he should do well being in his position.

 


Patrick Vieira's
Red and Blue Army!

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View mtp1958's Profile mtp1958 Flag Grays 01 Sep 22 4.11pm Send a Private Message to mtp1958 Add mtp1958 as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I understand your point and it's weight however I don' think the buck stops with the CBs.

Fact of the matter is PV's changes invited pressure on to us which was not there previously and if he wanted the team to defend a certain way, under that pressure, it is his job to ensure they are well coached and quite frankly understand whether the players he selected are competent to do what he asked, otherwise he'd be asking them to do something he knows they cannot.

If you're gonna blame the CB's for not doing their job I'd ask why Brentford had not scored more goals in the match... or even came close. They had about 4 opportunities to score towards the end as we had no 'out ball' and the defence looked confused and disorientated by the changes made.

We let in alot of late goals because we lose our discipline in defence , could be fatigue or panic or both but basic defending 101 is leadership by CBs , sadly they got pulled out of position ball watching not player watching we switched to 5 at the back which we only just played and stopped city for 53 mins , so you cant say the switch disorientated them it was the same 5 as last week , and Lanzo do you say to a doctor who question your standard of medical knowledge whats standard of knowledge got to do with it , but i always read your post you Eze groupie

 

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View Lanzo-Ad's Profile Lanzo-Ad Online Flag Lanzarote 01 Sep 22 4.45pm Send a Private Message to Lanzo-Ad Add Lanzo-Ad as a friend

Originally posted by mtp1958

We let in alot of late goals because we lose our discipline in defence , could be fatigue or panic or both but basic defending 101 is leadership by CBs , sadly they got pulled out of position ball watching not player watching we switched to 5 at the back which we only just played and stopped city for 53 mins , so you cant say the switch disorientated them it was the same 5 as last week , and Lanzo do you say to a doctor who question your standard of medical knowledge whats standard of knowledge got to do with it , but i always read your post you Eze groupie

 


I remember Paris in '49, The Champs Elysee, Saint Michel And old Beaujolais wine, And I recall that you were mine, In those Parisienne days


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View MrRobbo's Profile MrRobbo Flag Purley 01 Sep 22 4.47pm Send a Private Message to MrRobbo Add MrRobbo as a friend

Originally posted by mtp1958

We let in alot of late goals because we lose our discipline in defence , could be fatigue or panic or both but basic defending 101 is leadership by CBs , sadly they got pulled out of position ball watching not player watching we switched to 5 at the back which we only just played and stopped city for 53 mins , so you cant say the switch disorientated them it was the same 5 as last week , and Lanzo do you say to a doctor who question your standard of medical knowledge whats standard of knowledge got to do with it , but i always read your post you Eze groupie

I'd build on that slightly, as whilst fatigue doesn't help, I don't think that's the issue.

IMO its more that we have evolved as a team, and now dont operate with 2 massive meat head centre backs. If you wanted 2 CBs to survive an onslaught it wouldn't be our 2, lets be honest. You'd want a Cahill, a Delany etc

So our best form of defence, even if it seams like pointless possession, is keeping the ball. Which is why Vieria essentially deciding to sit back and defend for 20 mins is baffling.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 01 Sep 22 4.51pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by mtp1958

We let in alot of late goals because we lose our discipline in defence , could be fatigue or panic or both but basic defending 101 is leadership by CBs , sadly they got pulled out of position ball watching not player watching we switched to 5 at the back which we only just played and stopped city for 53 mins , so you cant say the switch disorientated them it was the same 5 as last week , and Lanzo do you say to a doctor who question your standard of medical knowledge whats standard of knowledge got to do with it , but i always read your post you Eze groupie

1. If we are losing our discipline in defence it's down to the manager to eradicate that. Furthermore, either PV did not realise this when we acquired those players or does and yet chooses to play them anyway despite the fact 'we let in a lot of late goals' . The blame can be attributed to him.

2. If the defence were ball and not player watching I would suggest it may be they were unsure of or not concentrating on who to pick up due to change of formation - they're playing a different team, no matter if they've played that formation before it's different players in a different side (City much different to Brentford) also again that's the managers fault.

3. Their goal came from yet another of their many attacks that often started with us being unable to get the ball up the pitch or retain it due to the players out there .

Anyway you spin it, I find it very hard to believe that we went from being in total control of that game, probably bemoaning not getting more goals if anything else, to being lucky to escape with a draw, all in the last 10 mins, all post subs and change in formation. To absolve the players of any blame whatsoever is wrong of course but to attribute that scenario to them just 'switching off' for the last few minutes is even more so.

Managers often like to try and 'shake things up' when chasing a game late on to try and cause a bit of mayhem, Frank did try this but luckily for him so did Vieira which completely unbalanced the team and helped Brentford enormously. It was painfully obvious to see, the game swung immediately. They hit the bar etc etc and quite probably feel equally they should have got all 3 points.

As I said, my only concern is if this continued for longer. My hope is that PV will learn from mistakes and do his best to ensure it doesn't.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View Putitout's Profile Putitout Flag Oxford 01 Sep 22 4.51pm Send a Private Message to Putitout Add Putitout as a friend

Every thing about that goal was handled badly. The cross should never have been allowed , I suspect if Cline, had stayed it wouldn’t have been, he and Olise, had done a good job in that area all night . But further to that the two central defenders were to far forward toward the ball considering Mitchell was left with two options when it should have been one. He should have not just marked the scorer but attacked the cross. But he had a Brentford wide man to worry about and he did nothing, but who knows if that wide man would turn into another Arsenal free header. If the ball cleared the goal area.
As PV said you can not leave a free man in front of goal. But that cross was just to easy and should have been closed down.

 

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View mtp1958's Profile mtp1958 Flag Grays 01 Sep 22 5.18pm Send a Private Message to mtp1958 Add mtp1958 as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

1. If we are losing our discipline in defence it's down to the manager to eradicate that. Furthermore, either PV did not realise this when we acquired those players or does and yet chooses to play them anyway despite the fact 'we let in a lot of late goals' . The blame can be attributed to him.

2. If the defence were ball and not player watching I would suggest it may be they were unsure of or not concentrating on who to pick up due to change of formation - they're playing a different team, no matter if they've played that formation before it's different players in a different side (City much different to Brentford) also again that's the managers fault.

3. Their goal came from yet another of their many attacks that often started with us being unable to get the ball up the pitch or retain it due to the players out there .

Anyway you spin it, I find it very hard to believe that we went from being in total control of that game, probably bemoaning not getting more goals if anything else, to being lucky to escape with a draw, all in the last 10 mins, all post subs and change in formation. To absolve the players of any blame whatsoever is wrong of course but to attribute that scenario to them just 'switching off' for the last few minutes is even more so.

Managers often like to try and 'shake things up' when chasing a game late on to try and cause a bit of mayhem, Frank did try this but luckily for him so did Vieira which completely unbalanced the team and helped Brentford enormously. It was painfully obvious to see, the game swung immediately. They hit the bar etc etc and quite probably feel equally they should have got all 3 points.

As I said, my only concern is if this continued for longer. My hope is that PV will learn from mistakes and do his best to ensure it doesn't.

it shouldnt make any difference whether its brentford or man city if you cant change to a system already played that is down to the players , they already showed PV they can play it against the best for long spell , do feel sometimes good old fashioned boot up the field or the stand then reset , we must learn how to run matchs out which i cant remember the last time we done that with ease

 

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View taylors lovechild's Profile taylors lovechild Online Flag 01 Sep 22 5.32pm Send a Private Message to taylors lovechild Add taylors lovechild as a friend

If you go back and watch Brentford's goal you'll see everyone gets drawn towards the man providing the cross, with Andersen and Guehi both losing sight of the forwards behind them. Because Andersen is ball watching and isn't picking anyone up Guehi goes to attack the player in front of him leaving the man he should be marking (Wissa) to have a free header. It's poor all round whether it's due to the tactical changes or the defending.

 

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 01 Sep 22 5.33pm Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

All very interesting, but in the second half we had things under control, the game being played away from our goal and therefore their chances of scoring were slim. Naturally they make the changes to see if they can affect the state of play and Vieira complies by making changes of his own which gave them the onus to fully control the ball. Once we started to sit back we gave them the opportunity to get closer to our goal; instead of competing the ball in the middle of the park or further up we turned it over to them, and they made use of our generosity. They will feel they should have had all 3 points at the end, so egregious was our play.
Terrible tactics, terrible subs, and not what I would expect from Palace at home against Brentford.
PV 100% wrong this time round. Negative thoughts, negative reaction.

 

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