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December 6 2022 11.36pm

Time for a radical political reset

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 18 Nov 22 6.09am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

There is no point in doing a blame game on the state of the nation.

Things have been going wrong for decades.

Economically and socially since Blair up to Sunak.

Lack of planning, fiscal mismanagement, social deterioration have all come home to roost fuelled by unrealistic interest rates, lack of social cohesion, absurd expectations of something for nothing etc etc.

I can't see an end without a major political shake up. I have come around to the view we should try PR rather than FPTP. Sadly the only place we have tried is NI where it has been an abject failure.

We have allowed ourselves to get to a position where our elected class who levy tax and decide where it is spent do not seem to represent anyone from left to centre to right.

Am I being too pessimistic?

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 18 Nov 22 6.26am Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

My own opinions on a reset are based around a total overhaul of politics and the system. The 5 year General Election merry-go-round affords the country no longer-term planning. Successive Governments are able to fall-back on the "my predecessor messed-up" excuse.
Proportional Representation would perhaps kind of mellow the 2 party system, but it's not a complete solution.
In my Utopian vision the UK Government would be run by professionals in their field, in a similar way to how the Civil Service functions. For further example, not having a Prime Minister whose qualifications are a Degree in English Literature from Eton, but someone who has socio-economic experience, or someone dealing with Trade having a background in manufacturing/engineering.

I am fed-up with the "oh, we messed up a bit" excuse for people in Government clearly out of their depth and winging it.

Cromwell and Fawkes had the right idea to go about things, but I don't see the UK changing anything significant in the future. The political snouts are too well entrenched into the trough, and the enthusiasm for such a radical change has been much diluted using the media outlets.
The two-party system (in England) is successful in dividing the opinion of the population and conforms them into such a state.

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (18 Nov 2022 6.28am)

 


,.,.,..,

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 18 Nov 22 6.35am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Can't agree that Fawkes' mass murder terrorist attempt was the way to go.

I am not convinced PR is an answer but what we have now is not working and what other electoral system is there?

Anything that gives Scotland a speedy farewell would get my support.

Edited by HKOwen (18 Nov 2022 6.40am)

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 18 Nov 22 6.57am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

Anything that gives Scotland a speedy farewell would get my support.

But it isn't workable in practice unless you build a huge Trump style wall across the border

 

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 18 Nov 22 7.16am Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

as a slight aside, I studied A level Government and Politics in the mid-1980's at the height of Thatcherism.At the start of every lecture there was a heated debate between students about the latest happenings in Government between staunch Tories and their fellow to the left.
Interesting points was raised by both sides, to the detriment of the lecture, which always started late because of off-topic discussions. And when the lecture did start, was frequently interrupted.

 


,.,.,..,

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 18 Nov 22 8.27am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

But it isn't workable in practice unless you build a huge Trump style wall across the border

Exactly, some may think this fantasy but I think it is a real possibility.

My brother lives in the north of England he runs a B&B and gets Scottish visitors coming to England to buy their booze because Wee Jimmie has put the tax up. Post independence I can only see this cross border buying increasing so the SNP maybe the ones doing border controls.

The SNP believe in open borders if they get their way migrants will fly to Scotland and then cross the border, at some point the UK government would be forced to stop this.

 


One more point

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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 18 Nov 22 8.37am Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Exactly, some may think this fantasy but I think it is a real possibility.

My brother lives in the north of England he runs a B&B and gets Scottish visitors coming to England to buy their booze because Wee Jimmie has put the tax up. Post independence I can only see this cross border buying increasing so the SNP maybe the ones doing border controls.

The SNP believe in open borders if they get their way migrants will fly to Scotland and then cross the border, at some point the UK government would be forced to stop this.

And imagine 'simple' issues like who qualifies to be classed as 'Scottish', with a right to live there? Is it everyone who lives there at a particular date? Will every UK citizen have the right to declare themselves as 'Scottish'? If so, what about the people they are married or civil partnered to or partnered with, or their children or step-children; what will their status be? What about all the people around the world who claim to be 'Scottish' - anecdotally there are many times more of these than the population of Scotland itself?

Edited by YT (18 Nov 2022 8.37am)

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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View Henry of Peckham's Profile Henry of Peckham Flag Eton Mess 18 Nov 22 8.37am Send a Private Message to Henry of Peckham Add Henry of Peckham as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

Can't agree that Fawkes' mass murder terrorist attempt was the way to go.

I am not convinced PR is an answer but what we have now is not working and what other electoral system is there?

Anything that gives Scotland a speedy farewell would get my support.

Edited by HKOwen (18 Nov 2022 6.40am)

Giving people 'a choice' is actually a waste of time because in practice there isn't any. The self-indulgent ponce Johnson followed by the clueless moron Truss are indicative of the desperately poor calibre of people that put themselves forward these days. Perhaps a steady fascist dictatorship might be the solution to move the country forward?

 


Denial is not just a river in Egypt

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 18 Nov 22 8.40am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by YT

And imagine 'simple' issues like who qualifies to be classed as 'Scottish', with a right to live there? Is it everyone who lives there at a particular date? Will every UK citizen have the right to declare themselves as 'Scottish'? If so, what about the people they are married or civil partnered to or partnered with, or their children or step-children; what will their status be? What about all the people around the world who claim to be 'Scottish' - anecdotally there are many times more if these than the population of Scotland itself?

Exactly to stop migrants coming to the UK through the back door the UK would have to draw a line and treat Scottish people the same as any EU subject.

The days of an unemployed unskilled jock jumping on a train to London and looking for work would have to go. Oddly enough I know quite a few Scots and Irish who just did and found work and paid taxes here.

The Scots may have forgotten that when they have no jobs England / London is always a good place for work. I would imagine Wee Jimmie would do her nut but what do you expect if you are independent you have no more rights than any other foreign worker.

Edited by Badger11 (18 Nov 2022 8.44am)

 


One more point

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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 18 Nov 22 8.40am Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by Henry of Peckham

Giving people 'a choice' is actually a waste of time because in practice there isn't any. The self-indulgent ponce Johnson followed by the clueless moron Truss are indicative of the desperately poor calibre of people that put themselves forward these days. Perhaps a steady fascist dictatorship might be the solution to move the country forward?

And you inadvertently forgot to mention the Labour party's hopeless previous leaders - Brown, Milliband and Corbyn.

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 18 Nov 22 8.43am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

There is no point in doing a blame game on the state of the nation.

Things have been going wrong for decades.

Economically and socially since Blair up to Sunak.

Lack of planning, fiscal mismanagement, social deterioration have all come home to roost fuelled by unrealistic interest rates, lack of social cohesion, absurd expectations of something for nothing etc etc.

I can't see an end without a major political shake up. I have come around to the view we should try PR rather than FPTP. Sadly the only place we have tried is NI where it has been an abject failure.

We have allowed ourselves to get to a position where our elected class who levy tax and decide where it is spent do not seem to represent anyone from left to centre to right.

Am I being too pessimistic?

You need to look beyond NI for a model. That system doesn't work because the DUP only signed up to the Anglo Irish Agreement under protest, now only play lip service to joint rule and put up any obstacle they can to working with the nationalists. The previous leader would not resign over a patently resignable issue as it would have meant handing over the reigns to Deputy McGuiness. Now the protocol is just another disingenuous excuse, and I have little doubt they will paralyse their country in years to come over a.n.other excuse rather than work with Sinn Fein.

We have powerful political divisions but nothing like the entrenched Sectarian pish that still divides that place.

The continent has a whole range of better examples to follow of strong stable prosperous countries with a long tradition of coalition government.

 

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 18 Nov 22 8.44am Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

Originally posted by Henry of Peckham

Giving people 'a choice' is actually a waste of time because in practice there isn't any. The self-indulgent ponce Johnson followed by the clueless moron Truss are indicative of the desperately poor calibre of people that put themselves forward these days. Perhaps a steady fascist dictatorship might be the solution to move the country forward?

that thought had entered my head. too much electoral choice gives paralysis through analysis.

 


,.,.,..,

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