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February 5 2023 3.09pm

Coronavirus and the impact of Lockdown policy

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View Eden Eagle's Profile Eden Eagle Flag Kent 02 Dec 22 5.55pm Send a Private Message to Eden Eagle Add Eden Eagle as a friend

As the CV thread has been locked I thought it was worth discussing the report from Whitty & Valance (Office for Health Improvement and Disparities) and the fact that the UK will face a “prolonged period of excess deaths” due to their lockdown policy with 40,000 fewer cancer diagnoses in 2020 compared to 2019.

So not only have we trashed the economy due to the lockdowns with the increased Government debt taking generations to repay but many thousands of people will die through undiagnosed cancers, with the British Heart Foundation estimating that up to 30,000 people have died needlessly from heart disease since the start of the pandemic.

Who would have thought that closing the NHS for 2 years to everything but CV would have had this impact!

Hopefully the CV inquiry will be able to hold people accountable for their actions…

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Dec 22 6.56pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

It's alright, I saw Biden say months back if you didn't have a vaccination you were likely to get very sick and die. So I guess most of those non vaccinated people kicked the bucket.....because we all know Biden never talks absolute BS.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 02 Dec 22 8.37pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Eden Eagle

As the CV thread has been locked I thought it was worth discussing the report from Whitty & Valance (Office for Health Improvement and Disparities) and the fact that the UK will face a “prolonged period of excess deaths” due to their lockdown policy with 40,000 fewer cancer diagnoses in 2020 compared to 2019.

So not only have we trashed the economy due to the lockdowns with the increased Government debt taking generations to repay but many thousands of people will die through undiagnosed cancers, with the British Heart Foundation estimating that up to 30,000 people have died needlessly from heart disease since the start of the pandemic.

Who would have thought that closing the NHS for 2 years to everything but CV would have had this impact!

Hopefully the CV inquiry will be able to hold people accountable for their actions…

I heard this evening a report that Whitty had predicted, very early in the pandemic, that we would lose (from memory) 720,000 people if we didn't lock down. We have actually lost around 200,000!

We had no vaccines. No treatments. We were in uncharted water and needed time. So we bought time. The enquiry is there to learn whatever lessons are there to be learned. It's not an inquest or murder enquiry to satisfy the egos of know-it-alls convinced they know better than our experts.

Doubtless others will explain better than me.

 

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 02 Dec 22 10.52pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

I hope the enquiry will give some factual analysis to the deaths from covid and deaths with covid. The number's being thrown around by politicians and those with an agenda are misleading and need proper scrutiny.

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 02 Dec 22 10.53pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Eden Eagle

As the CV thread has been locked I thought it was worth discussing the report from Whitty & Valance (Office for Health Improvement and Disparities) and the fact that the UK will face a “prolonged period of excess deaths” due to their lockdown policy with 40,000 fewer cancer diagnoses in 2020 compared to 2019.

So not only have we trashed the economy due to the lockdowns with the increased Government debt taking generations to repay but many thousands of people will die through undiagnosed cancers, with the British Heart Foundation estimating that up to 30,000 people have died needlessly from heart disease since the start of the pandemic.

Who would have thought that closing the NHS for 2 years to everything but CV would have had this impact!

Hopefully the CV inquiry will be able to hold people accountable for their actions…

From the moment COVID hit, the Tories were doomed. They could not win.
They were either going to be accused of letting people die ,being incompetent or damaging the economy. It was an absolutely massive boon for the opposition.

Politics relies on short memories and empty promises. We will be seeing plenty of both in the coming months.

 

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 03 Dec 22 4.24am Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

As long as it understood that all scientific advice was tweeked by politics, then you should have a better grounding. Loads of people died through late diagnosis of cancer/having their treatment stopped.
Tough decisions were made (which no-one ever thought they would have to make), which were inevitably going to lead to deaths one way or t'other.

A thorough understanding of the decision process and the information behind it is underway. No doubt serious fk-ups were made, and even verging on criminal, the way emergency contracts were handed out and huge amounts of public money wasted.

It might be a painful process, but we need a thorough understanding of events to learn from

 


,.,.,..,

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View Dubai Eagle's Profile Dubai Eagle Online Flag 03 Dec 22 6.53am Send a Private Message to Dubai Eagle Add Dubai Eagle as a friend

I think we were also in a position where everyone else was going into lockdown (except the Swedes) & we didn't have enough to hang our hat on to row against the tide- in many ways whatever we would have done (lockdown or no lockdown) we (the Government) would have been lambasted in the media with stories that suited their own agenda - as WE says, unchartered water, decisions were made with information that was available at the time & its easy to look back & say the outcome have been better "if we had done this or that"

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I heard this evening a report that Whitty had predicted, very early in the pandemic, that we would lose (from memory) 720,000 people if we didn't lock down. We have actually lost around 200,000!

We had no vaccines. No treatments. We were in uncharted water and needed time. So we bought time. The enquiry is there to learn whatever lessons are there to be learned. It's not an inquest or murder enquiry to satisfy the egos of know-it-alls convinced they know better than our experts.

Doubtless others will explain better than me.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 03 Dec 22 8.02am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Dubai Eagle

I think we were also in a position where everyone else was going into lockdown (except the Swedes) & we didn't have enough to hang our hat on to row against the tide- in many ways whatever we would have done (lockdown or no lockdown) we (the Government) would have been lambasted in the media with stories that suited their own agenda - as WE says, unchartered water, decisions were made with information that was available at the time & its easy to look back & say the outcome have been better "if we had done this or that"

Is that the British now?

We look and worry about what everyone else is doing when we make a decision? That's group think and it's a fallacy and little different to the approach that lemmings take.

Let's remind ourselves that Sweden's policy was actually a version of our own original one. Johnson actually announced that policy at the beginning. That was the long standing policy of how to deal with pandemics. What actually happened a week later was emotion and fear over reason....a literal financial disaster over common sense. Lies and 'nudge units' over plainly delivered truths. A generation treated like children instead of adults.

People haven't really an idea of just how much was spent by Sunak. They have burdened future generations with our hubris. It's the very reversal of caring about the future....it's kicking away their ladder. I'm proud to say I never accepted this course.

I'd suggest to you that rather than it being the 'information at the time' the lockdowns and spending 400 billion were far more the result of pressure from the media and health 'experts' who all wanted safety and spend first.

The British cultural elite and much of Europe are essentially socially liberal/left and thus this outcome was instinctively inevitable.....just as in everything else they have done nothing but manage our decline and with this in fact vastly accelerated it. All while only really caring about insulating themselves as much as possible.

For me, if someone is part of the class that gets paid well and makes the decisions then you have to take the responsibility when they turn out far less positive than advertised. But we don't get that....instead we get justifications for why they took those decisions....well anyone could do that. However, no elite end up taking responsibility for their failures, just as no Turkey would vote for Christmas...there is no means to hold these people to account. Instead, it's more likely they get rewarded as they gaslight.

However, the reality was that the opposition and other alternatives were always there. Hol itself is a testament to that as we had arguments over this approach all the way through and no doubt this happened in most forums. But those alternatives were ignored and demonised at the top......Instead people were sacked, arrested, people were compelled against their will on their own personal health decisions, they were pressurised, ostracized and threatened.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Dec 2022 10.28am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 03 Dec 22 8.15am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger


From the moment COVID hit, the Tories were doomed. They could not win.
They were either going to be accused of letting people die ,being incompetent or damaging the economy. It was an absolutely massive boon for the opposition.

Politics relies on short memories and empty promises. We will be seeing plenty of both in the coming months.

Yet Keir Starmer agreed with most of the decisions taken in the early days but as they weren't the ones in charge they won't get the flack

 

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View Eden Eagle's Profile Eden Eagle Flag Kent 03 Dec 22 2.13pm Send a Private Message to Eden Eagle Add Eden Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I heard this evening a report that Whitty had predicted, very early in the pandemic, that we would lose (from memory) 720,000 people if we didn't lock down. We have actually lost around 200,000!

We had no vaccines. No treatments. We were in uncharted water and needed time. So we bought time. The enquiry is there to learn whatever lessons are there to be learned. It's not an inquest or murder enquiry to satisfy the egos of know-it-alls convinced they know better than our experts.

Doubtless others will explain better than me.

We were not in “uncharted water” the UK had a plan and this was updated after the SARs virus and the plan did not include shutting down the economy, closing the NHS & paying people to stay home.

Yet another tone deaf response from you - For the tens of thousands who will needlessly die from the effects of this policy we have not “bought them time”.

As you well know there have not been 200,000 deaths from covid.

The government came close to another lockdown in December 2021 when it was very clear what the infection fatality rate was (very low) and that most people who tested positive either had no symptoms or extremely mild ones.

And typical from you WE when someone has a view that you do not agree with you label them as “know it alls”

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 03 Dec 22 9.57pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Eden Eagle

We were not in “uncharted water” the UK had a plan and this was updated after the SARs virus and the plan did not include shutting down the economy, closing the NHS & paying people to stay home.

Yet another tone deaf response from you - For the tens of thousands who will needlessly die from the effects of this policy we have not “bought them time”.

As you well know there have not been 200,000 deaths from covid.

The government came close to another lockdown in December 2021 when it was very clear what the infection fatality rate was (very low) and that most people who tested positive either had no symptoms or extremely mild ones.

And typical from you WE when someone has a view that you do not agree with you label them as “know it alls”

Of course we were in uncharted waters! This virus was new but appeared virulent and very unlike SARS which had been successfully contained. No plan existed to deal with this. It had to be created "on the hoof". The "200,000" deaths was what was stated in the interview. So was from memory. I just looked it up. The official statistics say there have been 212,296.

We all know, accept and regret, that the impact of lockdowns on our health services will mean deaths than would have been avoided without them. It's not though the issue.

The issue is whether there would have been more deaths overall if we had not had lockdowns. Just as whether the overall financial costs would have been higher, or lower, with or without and, if lower, whether that cost saving was worth a higher number of deaths.

These are almost impossible questions when they need to be answered at the start of a crisis, with no useful experience to guide you, and need to be made very quickly.

When faced with lose, lose choices you have to choose the least worse.

I criticise those who think they know better, on every subject under the sun, than experts and those who have access to expert advice, They truly are know it alls. I frequently find myself defending expert opinion on here, and then get accused of defending the establishment. I am not interested in the establishment. I do though prefer genuine knowledge to bs.


 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Online Flag 03 Dec 22 10.29pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Of course we were in uncharted waters! This virus was new but appeared virulent and very unlike SARS which had been successfully contained. No plan existed to deal with this. It had to be created "on the hoof". The "200,000" deaths was what was stated in the interview. So was from memory. I just looked it up. The official statistics say there have been 212,296.

We all know, accept and regret, that the impact of lockdowns on our health services will mean deaths than would have been avoided without them. It's not though the issue.

The issue is whether there would have been more deaths overall if we had not had lockdowns. Just as whether the overall financial costs would have been higher, or lower, with or without and, if lower, whether that cost saving was worth a higher number of deaths.

These are almost impossible questions when they need to be answered at the start of a crisis, with no useful experience to guide you, and need to be made very quickly.

When faced with lose, lose choices you have to choose the least worse.

I criticise those who think they know better, on every subject under the sun, than experts and those who have access to expert advice, They truly are know it alls. I frequently find myself defending expert opinion on here, and then get accused of defending the establishment. I am not interested in the establishment. I do though prefer genuine knowledge to bs.


The official total is meaningless since anyone who died of literally anything was recorded as a Covid death.
The issue is that pretty much the whole world locked down in the expectation that a vaccine would be become available even though one had never been developed before.

 

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