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June 6 2023 10.20am

Relegation 22/23

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View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 04 Feb 23 9.53pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad

i think the time has nearly gone, Dyche would have been perfect, the team i watched today were a unmotivated, unorganized shambles and could easily have been 4 down, i dont recognize this as a Crystal Palace team. the board are sleepwalking into relegation.

I think that's overstating it, Lanzo, but there IS a problem and I'm not sure how we fix it.

1. We start games incredibly slowly almost every time out. It seems to take us a minimum of 30 minutes to get going, by which time we're as often as not already behind the eight ball. I don't know if the slow starts are a (lack of) confidence thing or something else, but we seem to go out undercooked game after game. Vieira has to figure out why this keeps happening and fix it. Urgently.

2. When we do finally get going, we have impressive periods (the last fifteen minutes of the first half today, for example) BUT even during those periods, we still look toothless and largely unthreatening in the danger areas. It's time to admit the reality that our forwards are simply not good enough and do something about it-even if that means taking desperate measures. Edouard and Mateta have had enough time to deliver now and neither is up to the standard required. There's probably not a lot we can do to replace them outside the window, but this has to be addressed in the summer. Meantime, I'd seriously consider recalling Gordon from Carlisle. He's scoring goals and even if they're at a low level, scoring is at least to some extent a confidence game. It's not like he can score any fewer in the PL than Edouard and Mateta are doing. Or is there another youngster who'd be worth a run? We've got to try to find someone who at least might score goals rather than plugging away with forwards who never score them.

3. I haven't lost faith in Vieira yet myself, but my faith is now being tested. He's done a lot of good things and broadly I like the direction of travel, but we have stalled this season and we are now punching below our weight on a consistent basis and it's gone on long enough that I'm concerned. The problems have been obvious for some time and he really hasn't fixed them. It's reasonable to start asking if he knows how to at this point. If anything, we're getting worse, not better. Part of the solution did lie in bringing in players in the transfer window (we've done that) but that's not been the entire problem; there are tactical and apparently motivational issues too and a lot of players he's not getting the best out of. The next few weeks are a serious test for him and while I'm not on the PV out bandwagon right now, if the issues aren't addressed very quickly indeed I soon will be.

4. Lastly, in the main Vieira's selections and tactics are predictable. There's a bit of shuffling (Ward/Clyne, Schlupp/Hughes, etc.) from game-to-game but for the most part, our approach to every game is what it is. The shuffling isn't real change; just re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing again and again, but expecting a different outcome. That's what we're doing. I'm not going to venture my opinion on the tactical change that's needed to get things going; I'm not a professional coach but it's very clear now that there does need to be a different tactical approach and Vieira needs to figure out what that is and go through with it.

For me, it's not time to panic, yet. Or at least not quite. But we're getting there faster with each passing week. Obviously, beating Brighton would be a good start but more than anything else, I want to see a proper performance from the first minute. I want to see some passion, some urgency, some energy, and some bite. It's a long time since I saw Palace take the game to the opposition and impose ourselves. Doing that next week would be a good start, regardless of the result. Another passive defeat or even draw would be far less acceptable.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 04 Feb 23 10.05pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad


Dyche would have been perfect

You can laugh at Dyche and think he's not "big" enough for you. Many Everton fans have spent the last week doing just that. But the bottom line is that for all but the top seven teams, effective football is about being organised, motivated, and competitive. You need only look at the careers of Dyche, Allardyce, Pulis, and Hodgson, all of whom have punched far above the weight the resources at their disposal dictated they should be at, to see the reality that led to their success.

I think you are probably right; if you gave Dyche, (or Allardyce, or Pulis) the players we have now you would be seeing significantly different outcomes. The bottom line is they wouldn't tolerate the sort of passivity we're demonstrating on the pitch. Most of all, those managers build their teams around leaders and I have the impression we're seriously lacking in that department. For all their skills and ability, I'm not sure Guehi, Andersen, Mitchell, Olise, Eze, or Schlupp have a "leaderly" bone in their bodies. None of them are "take it by the scruff of the neck" personalities. That's a quality this team is seriously lacking.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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View The groover's Profile The groover Flag Danbury 04 Feb 23 10.56pm Send a Private Message to The groover Add The groover as a friend

Well this weekend has been a bummer!

My estimated target points for survival has gone up to 37.

 

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View Wilbraham413's Profile Wilbraham413 Flag 05 Feb 23 3.33am Send a Private Message to Wilbraham413 Add Wilbraham413 as a friend

Does anyone honestly think that PV is getting the best out of this squad? I don't. Our point total flatters us massively, because we looked second best in many matches where we stole points somehow.

In terms of performance, Mitchell has dropped off a cliff this season. Eze has dropped off a cliff. Olise and Zaha have gone backwards. Who has looked better this season? I can't think of anyone.

The fans have been screaming all season for Hughes to start, and to get Schlupp out of a defensive MF position. PV finally did that, after half a season, and both Hughes and Schlupp suddenly look better. How is it this difficult for PV to select proper players in proper spots?

I know our forwards are dire, but there's no excuse to make Ayew an automatic starter all season, then complain post-match that we don't score enough goals.

The most damning thing for me is how lazy, weak, and disinterested our players look for large stretches of many matches. We usually come out and immediately get dominated, then try to hang on til half time. Why? What is the matter with our training or coaching? Last season looked so promising, and this season we're right back to looking as hopeless as the last season under Roy. That's on PV to sort out, it's his job.

 


2017 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Middlesboro
2018 Jan. (Sako) Palace 1 - 0 Burnley
2019 May (Batshuayi, Batshuayi, OG, Van Aanholt, Townsend) Palace 5 - 3 Bournemouth
2020 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Newcastle

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View PatrickA's Profile PatrickA Flag London 05 Feb 23 7.48am Send a Private Message to PatrickA Add PatrickA as a friend

A view as to where we are currently.

Negatives
- we have scored only 19 goals in 21 games while averaging the conceding of nearly 1.5 goals per game
- we have the lowest running stats in the Premier League
- we frequently manage just a couple of shots on target per game and on occasions not even that
- we are usually outmuscled all over the field and lack pace in key areas
- many of our players have regressed this season leading to poor collective team performances

Positives
- we have Zaha, Anderson and possibly McArthur to come back
- we have two new midfielders to hopefully provide more energy and zest to a flagging midfield
- there is significant scope for improvement for improvement from the players who have regressed because the talent is there
- we have a 6 point cushion currently

Id be more confident if we looked like we had goals in the team and to me that is the major shortfall.
To state the obvious you have to score goals to win games.
Mateta and Edouard are not the players to conjure goals out of nothing so we have to find a way of improving the service , getting the ball into the box quicker and with more accuracy and frequency.
We also need to work harder off the ball and win more of the battles around the field.
Can Vieira get the players to step up performances to win the necessary points?
There must be a question mark if the same patterns are repeated in the remaining games, but there are still plenty of points to play for and four wins and a few draws should be enough.

 

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View Lanzo-Ad's Profile Lanzo-Ad Flag Lanzarote 05 Feb 23 7.57am Send a Private Message to Lanzo-Ad Add Lanzo-Ad as a friend

Originally posted by PatrickA

A view as to where we are currently.

Negatives
- we have scored only 19 goals in 21 games while averaging the conceding of nearly 1.5 goals per game
- we have the lowest running stats in the Premier League
- we frequently manage just a couple of shots on target per game and on occasions not even that
- we are usually outmuscled all over the field and lack pace in key areas
- many of our players have regressed this season leading to poor collective team performances

Positives
- we have Zaha, Anderson and possibly McArthur to come back
- we have two new midfielders to hopefully provide more energy and zest to a flagging midfield
- there is significant scope for improvement for improvement from the players who have regressed because the talent is there
- we have a 6 point cushion currently

Id be more confident if we looked like we had goals in the team and to me that is the major shortfall.
To state the obvious you have to score goals to win games.
Mateta and Edouard are not the players to conjure goals out of nothing so we have to find a way of improving the service , getting the ball into the box quicker and with more accuracy and frequency.
We also need to work harder off the ball and win more of the battles around the field.
Can Vieira get the players to step up performances to win the necessary points?
There must be a question mark if the same patterns are repeated in the remaining games, but there are still plenty of points to play for and four wins and a few draws should be enough.

We are on a downward spiral, and our manager dosent have the knowledge, experience, assertiveness or flexibility to turn the ship round.

 


Tell me, is something eluding you, sunshine?
Is this not what you expected to see?
If you wanna find out what's behind these cold eyes
You'll just have to claw your way through this disguise


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View Jacey's Profile Jacey Flag 05 Feb 23 8.14am Send a Private Message to Jacey Add Jacey as a friend

Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad

We are on a downward spiral, and our manager dosent have the knowledge, experience, assertiveness or flexibility to turn the ship round.

Precisely the many qualities possessed by Sean Dyche, as we are learning to our cost.

 

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Online Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 05 Feb 23 8.18am Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by sydtheeagle

You can laugh at Dyche and think he's not "big" enough for you. Many Everton fans have spent the last week doing just that. But the bottom line is that for all but the top seven teams, effective football is about being organised, motivated, and competitive. You need only look at the careers of Dyche, Allardyce, Pulis, and Hodgson, all of whom have punched far above the weight the resources at their disposal dictated they should be at, to see the reality that led to their success.

I think you are probably right; if you gave Dyche, (or Allardyce, or Pulis) the players we have now you would be seeing significantly different outcomes. The bottom line is they wouldn't tolerate the sort of passivity we're demonstrating on the pitch. Most of all, those managers build their teams around leaders and I have the impression we're seriously lacking in that department. For all their skills and ability, I'm not sure Guehi, Andersen, Mitchell, Olise, Eze, or Schlupp have a "leaderly" bone in their bodies. None of them are "take it by the scruff of the neck" personalities. That's a quality this team is seriously lacking.

The lack of on field leadership could be resolved with the return, IF it happens, of Jimmy Mac.

I've tried to remain positive over our January signings but I'm not convinced they are the answer.

I would have preferred to see an experienced player come into the midfield. Someone that can galvanise the team and dictate play.

It's stating the obvious, but we need to gather points from the clubs around us. The next two fixtures are against in form teams and it's hard to see us getting much if anything out of those games.

 


Old, Ungifted and White

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View Swindy's Profile Swindy Flag Bromley 05 Feb 23 8.34am Send a Private Message to Swindy Add Swindy as a friend

It is a touch odd that PV is getting the criticism here. The problem currently at our club as has been said above, is the Parish, the board and the lack of proper investment - this season he has certainly not been given the tools to compete better or try and improve on the positives of last season !!

 

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 05 Feb 23 8.39am Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Originally posted by Swindy

It is a touch odd that PV is getting the criticism here. The problem currently at our club as has been said above, is the Parish, the board and the lack of proper investment - this season he has certainly not been given the tools to compete better or try and improve on the positives of last season !!

It's six of one and half a dozen of the other. This is a lazy team, running stats confirm that, and Vieira could make an immediate difference there. I think the players are in their comfort zone, do the bare minimum to get by and the boss won't make a fuss. Perhaps no coincidence that Derry has gone.

Edited by southnorwoodhill (05 Feb 2023 8.40am)

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 05 Feb 23 8.55am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

I've tried to remain positive over our January signings but I'm not convinced they are the answer.

I would have preferred to see an experienced player come into the midfield. Someone that can galvanise the team and dictate play.

So would Vieira as that's what he asked for

 

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View The Dolphin's Profile The Dolphin Flag 05 Feb 23 9.05am Send a Private Message to The Dolphin Add The Dolphin as a friend

PV needs to stop rotation and pick a team that he doesn't change every week for no reason.
He needs to have no favourites either.
Round peg in round hole and stick with it.
We will be relegated otherwise.
We are the team to get dragged in.

Edited by The Dolphin (05 Feb 2023 9.05am)

 

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