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March 21 2023 12.43am

Chelsea vs Crystal Palace - Match Thread

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View viveasheagle's Profile viveasheagle Flag perth 17 Jan 23 3.52am Send a Private Message to viveasheagle Add viveasheagle as a friend

In any form or business if things are not working you have to change or your business is going to struggle. I thought with the world cup break and the full week between our last game and the Chelsea game changes or let's say a plan B could and should have been deployed. I could see advantages of playing a 5 3 2 or 5 3 1 formation to allow our full backs to play further up the field and act as ball winners and similarly the likes of Anderson or Guehi could carry the ball into midfield with the extra cover at the back. Instead we have more of the same and experience another loss and no goals. If the changes fail at least there is evidence the team and management are trying to improve but i am not seeing this. Questions have to be asked as to whether Viera and his coaching staff are up to the task.
I concur that with the loss of Kouyate and Gallagher and McCarthur been unavailable so far we are light in midfield so we need investment in this area.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 17 Jan 23 4.37am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

PV post match will be pleased with the effort. Although will his effort be as pleasing when it comes to the team sheet!

 

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag London 17 Jan 23 8.34am Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Watching the best player on the pitch, Gallagher, Iíll be surprised if heís going anywhere now.

 

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag London 17 Jan 23 8.36am Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Originally posted by Far away fan

PV is never going to be a great manager at Palace, the funds are just not in place.

Lack of shareholder funds has always been an issue but in the current climate it is a serious issue.

 

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View Den1923's Profile Den1923 Flag 17 Jan 23 9.38am Send a Private Message to Den1923 Add Den1923 as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

How is he holding the club back exactly ?

Surprised you do not know that yourself, there plenty of information about for example lack of succession planning for the first team squad, no transfer strategy, 8 first team squad players coming out of contract this summer, 17 days in to a 31 day transfer window with no action, when others around us were strengthened within a few days of the window opening, 11th highest wage bill in EPL covering a group of fairly low or unproven quality players, some of who would struggle to get in a championship starting lineup. Wasted money on planning applications and designs for a refurbished stadium that may not happen if we do not have EPL status and stability going forward. Saddled us with some pretty poor investors, two want out and one is now more interested in Lyon. I could go on but wants the point, what will be, will be!

 

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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Flag CR3 17 Jan 23 10.04am Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by Den1923

Surprised you do not know that yourself, there plenty of information about for example lack of succession planning for the first team squad, no transfer strategy, 8 first team squad players coming out of contract this summer, 17 days in to a 31 day transfer window with no action, when others around us were strengthened within a few days of the window opening, 11th highest wage bill in EPL covering a group of fairly low or unproven quality players, some of who would struggle to get in a championship starting lineup. Wasted money on planning applications and designs for a refurbished stadium that may not happen if we do not have EPL status and stability going forward. Saddled us with some pretty poor investors, two want out and one is now more interested in Lyon. I could go on but wants the point, what will be, will be!

But apart from that what has old Roman nose done for us?

 

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 17 Jan 23 10.52am Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by Den1923

Surprised you do not know that yourself, there plenty of information about for example lack of succession planning for the first team squad, no transfer strategy, 8 first team squad players coming out of contract this summer, 17 days in to a 31 day transfer window with no action, when others around us were strengthened within a few days of the window opening, 11th highest wage bill in EPL covering a group of fairly low or unproven quality players, some of who would struggle to get in a championship starting lineup. Wasted money on planning applications and designs for a refurbished stadium that may not happen if we do not have EPL status and stability going forward. Saddled us with some pretty poor investors, two want out and one is now more interested in Lyon. I could go on but wants the point, what will be, will be!

I asked you because I wanted you to expand on your original statement. I'm surprised that you couldn't grasp that but nevermind.

All of the issues that you mention actually boil down to money. Or rather the lack of it.

I totally agree that in a perfect world we would have a clearly defined transfer strategy. I think it's been partially influenced by the focus on the Academy, because the perception is that we were missing out on talent from South London. An area that has produced a number of top players in recent years.

8 players out of contract is not a new scenario at other clubs and indeed Palace have been in this situation before. It doesn't mean that all 8 will leave. Some that might be will be those that people on here having been critising consistently anyway.

The wage bill ? We're a London club. Prices are higher than the rest of the country and typically wages have to reflect that.

No incoming players - so far - this window. Not the best time to do business as premium pricing applies compared to summer. We are not a wealthy club. I'm the first to agree that the squad needs new blood, but if we are financially hamstrung it makes it that much harder.

I'm no expert on planning applications, but trying to develop a stadium in a residential area, with Sainsburys ( a previous Chairmans folly ) demanding unrealistic amounts for part of the car park, has resulted in a number of expensive delays. What's Parish meant to do - give up ? And you're right - it could be built and we aren't in the EPL. In your eyes then, another reason to do nothing ??

Finally, the investors. This is the part that we are all playing guessing games about to an extent. Harris and Blitzer have tried, unsuccessfully, to sell their shares. They did declare an interest in buying Chelsea but would have to divest their ownership of Palace to do so. It didn't happen. So they now have a choice whether to see their investment fall in value ( due to relegation ) or continue to protect it, albeit in modest terms compared to other clubs that are throwing money around like drunken sailors. AS to Textor, despite some reports in the Press, I think being part of his portfolio of clubs could have future benefit but that remains to be seen.

Where Parish really could be holding Palace back is the insistence that he remains at the club. Most incoming investors would want to start afresh with their own people. Example ; Chelsea - parted company with most of the senior people from the previous owner regime. However, all you have done is look at the negatives. Parish has been the driving force behind keeping this club in the Premier League for 10 years. The majority of the 56 years I've supported the club have been in the second flight or worse. He's not perfect, but overall I would say we have been lucky to have him at the helm.

Sometimes you don't know what you've got until it's gone.

 


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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag London 17 Jan 23 11.43am Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

I asked you because I wanted you to expand on your original statement. I'm surprised that you couldn't grasp that but nevermind.

All of the issues that you mention actually boil down to money. Or rather the lack of it.

I totally agree that in a perfect world we would have a clearly defined transfer strategy. I think it's been partially influenced by the focus on the Academy, because the perception is that we were missing out on talent from South London. An area that has produced a number of top players in recent years.

8 players out of contract is not a new scenario at other clubs and indeed Palace have been in this situation before. It doesn't mean that all 8 will leave. Some that might be will be those that people on here having been critising consistently anyway.

The wage bill ? We're a London club. Prices are higher than the rest of the country and typically wages have to reflect that.

No incoming players - so far - this window. Not the best time to do business as premium pricing applies compared to summer. We are not a wealthy club. I'm the first to agree that the squad needs new blood, but if we are financially hamstrung it makes it that much harder.

I'm no expert on planning applications, but trying to develop a stadium in a residential area, with Sainsburys ( a previous Chairmans folly ) demanding unrealistic amounts for part of the car park, has resulted in a number of expensive delays. What's Parish meant to do - give up ? And you're right - it could be built and we aren't in the EPL. In your eyes then, another reason to do nothing ??

Finally, the investors. This is the part that we are all playing guessing games about to an extent. Harris and Blitzer have tried, unsuccessfully, to sell their shares. They did declare an interest in buying Chelsea but would have to divest their ownership of Palace to do so. It didn't happen. So they now have a choice whether to see their investment fall in value ( due to relegation ) or continue to protect it, albeit in modest terms compared to other clubs that are throwing money around like drunken sailors. AS to Textor, despite some reports in the Press, I think being part of his portfolio of clubs could have future benefit but that remains to be seen.

Where Parish really could be holding Palace back is the insistence that he remains at the club. Most incoming investors would want to start afresh with their own people. Example ; Chelsea - parted company with most of the senior people from the previous owner regime. However, all you have done is look at the negatives. Parish has been the driving force behind keeping this club in the Premier League for 10 years. The majority of the 56 years I've supported the club have been in the second flight or worse. He's not perfect, but overall I would say we have been lucky to have him at the helm.

Sometimes you don't know what you've got until it's gone.


Good post

 

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View Den1923's Profile Den1923 Flag 17 Jan 23 12.50pm Send a Private Message to Den1923 Add Den1923 as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

1. Money - Or Lack of it, Blitzer/Harris are amongst most wealthiest in EPL, Parish got in to bed with them, he is CEO/Chairman therefore its his job to convince them to invest more and if he can't get out and let someone else takeover and give leadership and direction. Brentford and BH&A are good examples of how it should be done. 10 years under Parish in EPL and we are no further forward than year 1 in terms of squad quality.

2.We had large clearout last summer and look how that was handled in terms of bringing players in, no different to many windows before, an average net spend 11.5mil over prior 5 seasons is not going to maintain a EPL squad at the level it needs to be to be competitive. the only other team still in EPL who have invested less is Soton and look where they are.

3. Another mass exodus is on the cards this summer, I agree most of those coming out of contract need to go anyway as they are either sick or past it or just not EPL standard. We do not have the networking in place to pick up quality low cost players from around the world and then recycle them like both Brentford and Brighton seem to do very effectively.

4.Wage Bill has nothing to do with being a London club, CP59.4M,Ful37.6m,Soton36.2m,BH&A30m and Brentford15.8m. We are overpaying in some cases versus ability, Parish has never been good in that Department or at extending contracts of players like he did with Benteke when he was hardly playing and could not score (his wages alone were costing the club, the best part of 7m/per year & then there is the sicknote players (Wickham) as an example. Parish has proven time and time again that he has reached and passed his competency level and he can't walk the talk, which is another reason why he should go.

5. Academy - The talent pool is no longer S.E. London, its worldwide in the distant past teams were mainly made up of home grown players but now look at the team in both the EPL and Championship how many home grown players are there, they are fine examples of multinational teams with players from all corners of the world. It's a fallacy to think the Academy is going to provide enough talent to sustain a future EPL quality team, statistics say that only 0.5% of 16 years in organised football will ever go on to make it to elite level and for those who enter at 9yo the success rate of those who go on to make a living at Professional level is 0.018%. Therefore you need to active and know the transfer market as without our EPL status how are we going to pay for the Academy.

6.I have no problem with the stadium upgrade, however if we are not in the EPL it would be a white elephant in the lower leagues because we would not be able to fill it. Therefore does it not make sense to ensure that we have a quality and consistent mid table EPL squad in place so that we can then pay for such luxury. Not sure what the arrangements are between CPFC2010 AND CPFC Selhurst Park Ltd is but I do know that the latter is a small company directors are Parish/Blitzer/Harris/Textor, through this company they own the stadium which is secured on a debenture by a company registered in Luxembourg. so if anything happened to the 2010 club would the stadium then become SE25 real estate of great commercial value.

7. As for Textor and Lyon, the press are reporting today that he wants to take Michael Olise there in this window, so I guess he has shown where his own priority is at this time.

8.PV has made it very clear in the press prior to the current window the he needed player 3-5 have been quoted from his interviews in the press, whilst I accept the winter window is the most expensive time to buy its Parish who has put us in this position because of underinvestment in the past and it may now have an adverse effect future status. With additions it will still be difficult to find points between now and the end of March at which time we may well be in the bottom three.

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 17 Jan 23 1.28pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Den1923

As for Textor and Lyon, the press are reporting today that he wants to take Michael Olise there in this window, so I guess he has shown where his own priority is at this time.

Which Textor has denied

 

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 17 Jan 23 2.33pm Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by Den1923

Originally posted by NEILLO

1. Money - Or Lack of it, Blitzer/Harris are amongst most wealthiest in EPL, Parish got in to bed with them, he is CEO/Chairman therefore its his job to convince them to invest more and if he can't get out and let someone else takeover and give leadership and direction. Brentford and BH&A are good examples of how it should be done. 10 years under Parish in EPL and we are no further forward than year 1 in terms of squad quality.

2.We had large clearout last summer and look how that was handled in terms of bringing players in, no different to many windows before, an average net spend 11.5mil over prior 5 seasons is not going to maintain a EPL squad at the level it needs to be to be competitive. the only other team still in EPL who have invested less is Soton and look where they are.

3. Another mass exodus is on the cards this summer, I agree most of those coming out of contract need to go anyway as they are either sick or past it or just not EPL standard. We do not have the networking in place to pick up quality low cost players from around the world and then recycle them like both Brentford and Brighton seem to do very effectively.

4.Wage Bill has nothing to do with being a London club, CP59.4M,Ful37.6m,Soton36.2m,BH&A30m and Brentford15.8m. We are overpaying in some cases versus ability, Parish has never been good in that Department or at extending contracts of players like he did with Benteke when he was hardly playing and could not score (his wages alone were costing the club, the best part of 7m/per year & then there is the sicknote players (Wickham) as an example. Parish has proven time and time again that he has reached and passed his competency level and he can't walk the talk, which is another reason why he should go.

5. Academy - The talent pool is no longer S.E. London, its worldwide in the distant past teams were mainly made up of home grown players but now look at the team in both the EPL and Championship how many home grown players are there, they are fine examples of multinational teams with players from all corners of the world. It's a fallacy to think the Academy is going to provide enough talent to sustain a future EPL quality team, statistics say that only 0.5% of 16 years in organised football will ever go on to make it to elite level and for those who enter at 9yo the success rate of those who go on to make a living at Professional level is 0.018%. Therefore you need to active and know the transfer market as without our EPL status how are we going to pay for the Academy.

6.I have no problem with the stadium upgrade, however if we are not in the EPL it would be a white elephant in the lower leagues because we would not be able to fill it. Therefore does it not make sense to ensure that we have a quality and consistent mid table EPL squad in place so that we can then pay for such luxury. Not sure what the arrangements are between CPFC2010 AND CPFC Selhurst Park Ltd is but I do know that the latter is a small company directors are Parish/Blitzer/Harris/Textor, through this company they own the stadium which is secured on a debenture by a company registered in Luxembourg. so if anything happened to the 2010 club would the stadium then become SE25 real estate of great commercial value.

7. As for Textor and Lyon, the press are reporting today that he wants to take Michael Olise there in this window, so I guess he has shown where his own priority is at this time.

8.PV has made it very clear in the press prior to the current window the he needed player 3-5 have been quoted from his interviews in the press, whilst I accept the winter window is the most expensive time to buy its Parish who has put us in this position because of underinvestment in the past and it may now have an adverse effect future status. With additions it will still be difficult to find points between now and the end of March at which time we may well be in the bottom three.

1. Brentford and Brighton have sole owners, Matthew Bentham and Tony Bloom. Funding the clubs they support. And Bentham used to work for Bloom so they share that in common too. Yes, they have performed brilliantly over the last few years. Pound for pound they have outperformed just about everyone else in the EPL. They are the exceptions, not the rule. You continue to blame one person, Parish, in a situation whereby he is one of a group of four. Were you moaning when he attracted the initial investment from Harris and Blitzer ? Did you see the Textor investment as a bad thing ? Kenwright at Everton attracted a ultra wealthy investor ( now owner ) - has that guaranteed them success ?
Parish can't demand that the others put in any more money.

2. I've already accepted that the club has no money, and agree that the squad needs strengthening, so what's your point ?

3. Yes, the scouting at Brentford and Brighton is far more effective than ours and the majority of clubs in the EPL on a value basis.

4. I cite being a London club as being a factor in high wages and then you quote figures from Southampton and Brighton ! Yes, Parish signed the likes of Benteke and Sakho. Then agreed a huge wage for Zaha. How many people at the time thought they were errors in judgement ? With hindsight, I wonder if he would have sanctioned those deals for those two Liverpool signings ? - quite possibly not. And now you are laying the blame for Wickham's injuries on the Chairman - seriously ?

5. I said that part of the motivation behind the Academy was to compete for the best local talent, not solely focus on it. And there are no guarantees of success nor should there be a reliance on it for supplying players for the first team. And I don't think there is - the stats you quote speak for themselves. But you can't do nothing. A bit like me, you like to make Brighton comparisons - take a look at their Academy facilities.

6. Look, you clearly do have a problem with the development. Take a simple risk assessment to decide whether it's a go/no go. You say it would make sense ''to ensure that we have a quality and consistent mid table EPL squad in place ''. Have a look at our placings for the last 10 years. In some of those seasons we have looked over our shoulder at certain points, but we have been largely clear from relegation worries. Frozen at this precise moment, during a bad run of results, you're getting cold feet. So what do you want to do ? Put the project on hold and then bring it back to life if we win a few games in a row ? It doesn't work like that.

7. Do you really believe everything you read in the Press ?

8. Yep, underinvested in, agreed. See previous comments about our ownership structure and finances. Again you choose to blame one person. It's becoming clear that unless you have investors that are willing to speculate by pumping multi millions into clubs, it's becoming increasingly difficult to compete. And even that doesn't always work out. You show me Brentford and Brighton, I'll show you Everton and West Ham.

 


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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 17 Jan 23 2.43pm Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Regarding investors, it seems that they are not exactly queueing round the block to get a slice of the action, which I find strange, given our 10 seasons in the PL. Could it be that Parish refusing to relinquish overall control is a factor?

 

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