More bad news for remoaners
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 Badger11  Beckenham 06 Sep 23 8.48am |
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A similar question for Brexiteers would you consider rejoining under any circumstances and where do you draw the line. For me: We have an associate membership which means freedom of movement and goods between UK and the EU (like it was before). Caveat: This would be under EU rules but would not impact our trade or relations with the rest of the world. We would not be required to join Shengen or the Euro or any political / social policy decisions the EU make. The membership costs would not be too expensive. Edited by Badger11 (06 Sep 2023 8.49am)
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jcreedy  06 Sep 23 9.04am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Again this is because the EU are being an ass about it. I have no problem with the EU strengthening it's borders we should do the same. However there is nothing preventing the EU from agreeing a deal with the UK where UK passport holders would be treated the same as EU citizens. I believe the UK government asked for this and was turned down, meanwhile EU citizens coming to the UK are processed in the same way as UK citizens and also allowed to stay for 6 months not 90 days like the EU. One of these days a Rejoiner is actually going to criticise the EU instead of blaming the UK, one of these days.. Edited by Badger11 (06 Sep 2023 8.02am) Can you not understand that we voted to become a third country? Tories stood on a stages, and got applauded for celebrating the fact that they were ending free movement. They chose this. Went should we then expect concessions? It's just cakeism.
It was my dream to play for Palace and to make my debut. I've always played for the club so if I'm playing here, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. - John Bostock (Nov 2007) |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 06 Sep 23 9.15am |
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Originally posted by jcreedy
Can you not understand that we voted to become a third country? Tories stood on a stages, and got applauded for celebrating the fact that they were ending free movement. They chose this. Went should we then expect concessions? It's just cakeism. Can you not understand that the EU has taken a hardline and that they are the ones who are being inflexible. President Macron recently suggested that there could be an outer group of UK, Norway and Swtzerland.
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| newickeagle Newick, E Sussex 06 Sep 23 9.18am |
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I think you make a sensible point there Badger. Ultimately, we end up in a free trade area with the EU, however that is constructed. But, there is no getting away from EU Law. It is the glue of the block and they will not allow third party countries to compromise. The irony, as I see it, is that we are subject to these laws in the end with no input into the process of passing. Hardly taking back control, in fact, quite the opposite. It keeps us out of the Euro and Schengen Area, we were anyway.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 06 Sep 23 9.24am |
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Originally posted by newickeagle
I think you make a sensible point there Badger. Ultimately, we end up in a free trade area with the EU, however that is constructed. But, there is no getting away from EU Law. It is the glue of the block and they will not allow third party countries to compromise. The irony, as I see it, is that we are subject to these laws in the end with no input into the process of passing. Hardly taking back control, in fact, quite the opposite. It keeps us out of the Euro and Schengen Area, we were anyway. Yup I know that for many Brexiteers this is a red flag but I don't have a problem with it. When we do business with the US or any other country we abide by their laws. That was never a sticking point for me. The red flag was that the EU insisted we use their laws to trade with the rest of the world effectively they would control our trade relations with the rest of the world.
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HKOwen  Hong Kong 06 Sep 23 10.33am |
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Originally posted by jcreedy
Can you not understand that we voted to become a third country? Tories stood on a stages, and got applauded for celebrating the fact that they were ending free movement. They chose this. Went should we then expect concessions? It's just cakeism. What does become a third country mean? The choice was made by those who voted in the referendum, not a few politicians who supported leaving.
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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| georgenorman 06 Sep 23 11.49am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Yup I know that for many Brexiteers this is a red flag but I don't have a problem with it. When we do business with the US or any other country we abide by their laws. That was never a sticking point for me. The red flag was that the EU insisted we use their laws to trade with the rest of the world effectively they would control our trade relations with the rest of the world. It's not just trading regulations is it. EU law would have precedence over UK law and we would not be able to vote for the unelected commissioners who make EU law. If you can't vote for those who make the laws that govern you, then you don't live in a democracy.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Sep 23 11.58am |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
What does become a third country mean? The choice was made by those who voted in the referendum, not a few politicians who supported leaving. It just wasn’t. The choice was made when Parliament triggered Article 50. They could have refused to do so as no referendum is binding in the UK. They didn’t refuse even if they wanted to, because of the political consequences.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Sep 23 12.03pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Serious question to Rejoiners relating to my post above. Suppose we did ask to Rejoin at what point would you personally consider it to be a bad deal and say no: 1. We come back on exactly the same terms as we left with the rebate and no requirement to join Shengen and the Euro. 2. We lose the rebate and most join Shengen and the Euro. 3. As per 3 but as well we have to contribute billions more pa. 4. Something not mentioned already that you would find personally unacceptable. What I'm trying to gauge is there a point when even the most ardent EU supporter says walk away? 1. Won’t happen but would be gladly accepted. 2. Would be acceptable. 3. Impossible to say until details available. 4. A/A I don’t think any will happen though.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Sep 23 12.07pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Can you not understand that the EU has taken a hardline and that they are the ones who are being inflexible. President Macron recently suggested that there could be an outer group of UK, Norway and Swtzerland. A two speed Europe has been discussed for at least 40 years and is the ultimate destination but there are likely to be several stages on the journey. How many I witness is an open question.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| silvertop Portishead 06 Sep 23 12.59pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Again this is because the EU are being an ass about it. I have no problem with the EU strengthening it's borders we should do the same. However there is nothing preventing the EU from agreeing a deal with the UK where UK passport holders would be treated the same as EU citizens. I believe the UK government asked for this and was turned down, meanwhile EU citizens coming to the UK are processed in the same way as UK citizens and also allowed to stay for 6 months not 90 days like the EU. One of these days a Rejoiner is actually going to criticise the EU instead of blaming the UK, one of these days.. Edited by Badger11 (06 Sep 2023 8.02am) Why would they do that?
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| Badger11 Beckenham 06 Sep 23 1.50pm |
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Originally posted by silvertop
Why would they do that? Err because that is how we treat their citizens. Of course they don't have to but then why should we offer a courtesy to their citizens when it is not reciprocated.
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