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September 21 2023 2.23pm

"The Trouble With Socialism ..... Other people's m

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 12 Sep 23 7.54am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

Yes, I know what you mean and the balance is difficult to manage effectively.

The answer will come when we learn to balance need and incentive.

Anyway, did you watch the link? I thought I'd put it up to get some rock-hard responses to the point being made in the vid. So far, I have to say, I've had no joy. An enjoyable ride but not really what I had hoped for.

Thanks for the response: a good read.

I didnít watch the link. I have my opinions on how it is and my eyes donít fib. Collateral damage for the better good does happen and a huge majority of the time it works, or worked. Nowadays perfection is sought as a resolution to a problem. The social as it was, is abused and abused but cannot be changed because of the above. Like the NHS the welfare state is too big to fail and too big to succeed. Although my recent NHS experience has been brilliant and Iím nearly better. And Iím sure the good stories about both of the above outweigh the bad by a massive margin; but thatís not news is it ?

 

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View Glazier#1's Profile Glazier#1 Flag 12 Sep 23 9.54am Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

I didnít watch the link. I have my opinions on how it is and my eyes donít fib. Collateral damage for the better good does happen and a huge majority of the time it works, or worked. Nowadays perfection is sought as a resolution to a problem. The social as it was, is abused and abused but cannot be changed because of the above. Like the NHS the welfare state is too big to fail and too big to succeed. Although my recent NHS experience has been brilliant and Iím nearly better. And Iím sure the good stories about both of the above outweigh the bad by a massive margin; but thatís not news is it ?

What a shame. I know you think you 'know' but what harm to watch a 10 minute clip, eh?

 

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 12 Sep 23 10.05am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Socialism is driven by envy and hatred. It's like a fella going nuts cos another fella has a prettier wife. Which is, of course, simply the way of the World. One can hate it or one can accept it. A Champions League striker will have a nicer car & wife than everybody else.

Socialism is also driven by people rights.....but with no regard to their duties. 'i am entitled to a roof over my head'.....regardless of whether i behave like a t0sser in all the rest of my life. Refusing to work, choosing to party and generally behave like a loser.

the net result : Socialism makes everybody poorer and eradicates the work-ethic.

When you mix all this into Lefties insistence on opening up the Borders to legions of military-age men....the final outcome is anarchy.

 


inŠr n-aonar i Anerley,

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View Glazier#1's Profile Glazier#1 Flag 12 Sep 23 10.16am Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

Socialism is driven by envy and hatred. It's like a fella going nuts cos another fella has a prettier wife. Which is, of course, simply the way of the World. One can hate it or one can accept it. A Champions League striker will have a nicer car & wife than everybody else.

Socialism is also driven by people rights.....but with no regard to their duties. 'i am entitled to a roof over my head'.....regardless of whether i behave like a t0sser in all the rest of my life. Refusing to work, choosing to party and generally behave like a loser.

the net result : Socialism makes everybody poorer and eradicates the work-ethic.

When you mix all this into Lefties insistence on opening up the Borders to legions of military-age men....the final outcome is anarchy.


All this thread was meant to be about was to watch the video and discuss the presenter's claim. People can't even be bothered to do that which, I think, tells me enough.

Now look what's happened.


Sorry, can't be doing with EDL talk, Cristallo.

I'm out.

Edited by Glazier#1 (12 Sep 2023 10.20am)

Edited by Glazier#1 (12 Sep 2023 10.21am)

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 12 Sep 23 10.21am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1


All this thread was meant to be about was to watch the video and discuss the presenter's claim. People can't even be bothered to do that which, I think, tells me enough.

Now look what's happened.


Sorry, can't be doing with EDL talk.

I'm out.

Edited by Glazier#1 (12 Sep 2023 10.20am)

Pleae don't feel obliged to come back in.

 

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View ouzo's Profile ouzo Flag Rafina 12 Sep 23 10.34am Send a Private Message to ouzo Add ouzo as a friend

I had a view of the link Glazier posted and it is, in my opinion, garbage.

To not take into consideration the dollar/GBP exchange rate in each year means you are never going to get anywhere near a close comparison. From my quick search I found that in 1974 the average rate of exchange was around 2.3, whereas 2022 was around 1.2. This vastly alters the results presented. Generally, form my calculations, all years were vey close from 29 - 33%.

there is no other factors taken into account, like government borrowing or selling off assets (e.g. gold reserves) to pay for any government spending.

As I said, garbage.

 

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View Glazier#1's Profile Glazier#1 Flag 12 Sep 23 10.47am Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Pleae don't feel obliged to come back in.

Haha, I might have known you'd turn up, eventually, to contribute your usual, helpful and open-minded pen'orth. Your response is the only thing you've contributed: that's about right haha.

Of course, the sentiment just about sums up the temperature here with some people.

Thanks for taking the trouble to respond, Ouzo; you are the only person who's taken the trouble to watch, consider and respond to the clip.

I did wonder about the exchange rate question but wondered whether he'd done his sums and taken that into consideration.

I have absolutely no problem with you making your comments. I see them as healthy and part and parcel of proper discussion.

You see, Hrolf, old boy: it's not difficult.

 

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View ouzo's Profile ouzo Flag Rafina 12 Sep 23 11.02am Send a Private Message to ouzo Add ouzo as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

Haha, I might have known you'd turn up, eventually, to contribute your usual, helpful and open-minded pen'orth. Your response is the only thing you've contributed: that's about right haha.

Of course, the sentiment just about sums up the temperature here with some people.

Thanks for taking the trouble to respond, Ouzo; you are the only person who's taken the trouble to watch, consider and respond to the clip.

I did wonder about the exchange rate question but wondered whether he'd done his sums and taken that into consideration.

I have absolutely no problem with you making your comments. I see them as healthy and part and parcel of proper discussion.

You see, Hrolf, old boy: it's not difficult.

I believe he says that he ignored them as couldn't find accurate data, or some such remark. I say he ignored them as it didn't fit his agenda.

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Online Flag 12 Sep 23 11.08am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Government spending and taxation vary at different times and situations, there are all sorts of factors at play - for example, if the country is at war or there is a pandemic or other major events.

 

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View Glazier#1's Profile Glazier#1 Flag 12 Sep 23 11.37am Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by ouzo

I had a view of the link Glazier posted and it is, in my opinion, garbage.

To not take into consideration the dollar/GBP exchange rate in each year means you are never going to get anywhere near a close comparison. From my quick search I found that in 1974 the average rate of exchange was around 2.3, whereas 2022 was around 1.2. This vastly alters the results presented. Generally, form my calculations, all years were vey close from 29 - 33%.

there is no other factors taken into account, like government borrowing or selling off assets (e.g. gold reserves) to pay for any government spending.

As I said, garbage.

Are you saying that, from your calculations, there's hardly any difference between the parties?

 

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View ouzo's Profile ouzo Flag Rafina 12 Sep 23 12.04pm Send a Private Message to ouzo Add ouzo as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

Are you saying that, from your calculations, there's hardly any difference between the parties?

I am not a mathematician so my quick calculation could well be wrong, but, without checking who was in government, the range was as stated. I don't think you could say a 4% difference was significant.
To have a comprehensive overview you'd also need to take into account every year as only looking at years where there was a change in government will always skew the results, as there are quite often taxation changes designed to stay in power.

 

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View Glazier#1's Profile Glazier#1 Flag 12 Sep 23 12.20pm Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Cheers, Ouzo.

Good luck

 

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