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palace99 New Mills 12 Sep 23 5.16pm
Originally posted by ouzo I had a view of the link Glazier posted and it is, in my opinion, garbage. To not take into consideration the dollar/GBP exchange rate in each year means you are never going to get anywhere near a close comparison. From my quick search I found that in 1974 the average rate of exchange was around 2.3, whereas 2022 was around 1.2. This vastly alters the results presented. Generally, form my calculations, all years were vey close from 29 - 33%. there is no other factors taken into account, like government borrowing or selling off assets (e.g. gold reserves) to pay for any government spending. As I said, garbage. I agree ignoring the USD to GBP element is misleading, however, not sure it is complete garbage. Even from your basic calculations if the GDP/tax is very similar that sort of proves the point the guy is trying to make. As you say other factors are not taken into consideration so during the 80s all the privatisation and North Sea oil revenues would be ignored. Similarly now as we have the highest borrowings and a high RPI the cost of servicing this debt will be excluded, but it is considerable.
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palace99

New Mills 12 Sep 23 5.16pm

Originally posted by ouzo

I had a view of the link Glazier posted and it is, in my opinion, garbage.

To not take into consideration the dollar/GBP exchange rate in each year means you are never going to get anywhere near a close comparison. From my quick search I found that in 1974 the average rate of exchange was around 2.3, whereas 2022 was around 1.2. This vastly alters the results presented. Generally, form my calculations, all years were vey close from 29 - 33%.

there is no other factors taken into account, like government borrowing or selling off assets (e.g. gold reserves) to pay for any government spending.

As I said, garbage.

I agree ignoring the USD to GBP element is misleading, however, not sure it is complete garbage.
Even from your basic calculations if the GDP/tax is very similar that sort of proves the point the guy is trying to make.

As you say other factors are not taken into consideration so during the 80s all the privatisation and North Sea oil revenues would be ignored.
Similarly now as we have the highest borrowings and a high RPI the cost of servicing this debt will be excluded, but it is considerable.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 12 Sep 23 11.51pm
Originally posted by palace99 I agree ignoring the USD to GBP element is misleading, however, not sure it is complete garbage. Even from your basic calculations if the GDP/tax is very similar that sort of proves the point the guy is trying to make. As you say other factors are not taken into consideration so during the 80s all the privatisation and North Sea oil revenues would be ignored. Similarly now as we have the highest borrowings and a high RPI the cost of servicing this debt will be excluded, but it is considerable. I find it hard to take seriously any post on tax from someone who claimed Sunak had a US green card to enable him to evade income tax! Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 12 Sep 23 11.51pm

Originally posted by palace99

I find it hard to take seriously any post on tax from someone who claimed Sunak had a US green card to enable him to evade income tax!

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 12 Sep 23 11.55pm
I assume the video is not being taken as non partisan and accurate. A video with the opposite view could easily be cobbled together. Lies, damn lies etc. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 12 Sep 23 11.55pm

I assume the video is not being taken as non partisan and accurate.

A video with the opposite view could easily be cobbled together.

Lies, damn lies etc.

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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Sep 23 12.13pm
Originally posted by Glazier#1 Haha, I might have known you'd turn up, eventually, to contribute your usual, helpful and open-minded pen'orth. Your response is the only thing you've contributed: that's about right haha. Of course, the sentiment just about sums up the temperature here with some people. Thanks for taking the trouble to respond, Ouzo; you are the only person who's taken the trouble to watch, consider and respond to the clip. I did wonder about the exchange rate question but wondered whether he'd done his sums and taken that into consideration. I have absolutely no problem with you making your comments. I see them as healthy and part and parcel of proper discussion. You see, Hrolf, old boy: it's not difficult. Can you see the irony there?
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Sep 23 12.13pm

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Originally posted by Glazier#1

Haha, I might have known you'd turn up, eventually, to contribute your usual, helpful and open-minded pen'orth. Your response is the only thing you've contributed: that's about right haha.

Of course, the sentiment just about sums up the temperature here with some people.

Thanks for taking the trouble to respond, Ouzo; you are the only person who's taken the trouble to watch, consider and respond to the clip.

I did wonder about the exchange rate question but wondered whether he'd done his sums and taken that into consideration.

I have absolutely no problem with you making your comments. I see them as healthy and part and parcel of proper discussion.

You see, Hrolf, old boy: it's not difficult.

Can you see the irony there?

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 13 Sep 23 2.59pm
The Blair government in particular, governed over a period of sustained global growth - but ultimately got it all wrong when the crash happened. In fairness, almost all countries grew and almost all countries crashed. The Tory government have been in during a time of global recession (which is exactly how they got in) and global economic instability. Hindered by Covid and exacerbated by the rules of Brexit. The question really is: why be so badly affected by global economics? It would be nice if a government of any ilk could build a sustainable, solid, domestic economy. However, I have little faith as basically the idea isn't even scratching the surface of current, muddled, political thinking. In conclusion: the governments were more reliant on global trends than anything else. Which is largely luck or not luck, whichever way you look at it. Edited by ASCPFC (13 Sep 2023 3.00pm) Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 13 Sep 23 2.59pm

The Blair government in particular, governed over a period of sustained global growth - but ultimately got it all wrong when the crash happened. In fairness, almost all countries grew and almost all countries crashed.
The Tory government have been in during a time of global recession (which is exactly how they got in) and global economic instability. Hindered by Covid and exacerbated by the rules of Brexit.
The question really is: why be so badly affected by global economics? It would be nice if a government of any ilk could build a sustainable, solid, domestic economy. However, I have little faith as basically the idea isn't even scratching the surface of current, muddled, political thinking.
In conclusion: the governments were more reliant on global trends than anything else. Which is largely luck or not luck, whichever way you look at it.

Edited by ASCPFC (13 Sep 2023 3.00pm)

Red and Blue Army!

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Badger11 Beckenham 13 Sep 23 4.31pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC The Blair government in particular, governed over a period of sustained global growth - but ultimately got it all wrong when the crash happened. In fairness, almost all countries grew and almost all countries crashed. The Tory government have been in during a time of global recession (which is exactly how they got in) and global economic instability. Hindered by Covid and exacerbated by the rules of Brexit. The question really is: why be so badly affected by global economics? It would be nice if a government of any ilk could build a sustainable, solid, domestic economy. However, I have little faith as basically the idea isn't even scratching the surface of current, muddled, political thinking. In conclusion: the governments were more reliant on global trends than anything else. Which is largely luck or not luck, whichever way you look at it. Edited by ASCPFC (13 Sep 2023 3.00pm) It's a valid point and should be a top priority for any government. Energy and food security, identifying where the country has an over reliance on something from a particular country e.g. lithium for batteries or computer chips from China. Sadly I don't see any party has the wit or balls to address it. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 13 Sep 23 4.31pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

The Blair government in particular, governed over a period of sustained global growth - but ultimately got it all wrong when the crash happened. In fairness, almost all countries grew and almost all countries crashed.
The Tory government have been in during a time of global recession (which is exactly how they got in) and global economic instability. Hindered by Covid and exacerbated by the rules of Brexit.
The question really is: why be so badly affected by global economics? It would be nice if a government of any ilk could build a sustainable, solid, domestic economy. However, I have little faith as basically the idea isn't even scratching the surface of current, muddled, political thinking.
In conclusion: the governments were more reliant on global trends than anything else. Which is largely luck or not luck, whichever way you look at it.

Edited by ASCPFC (13 Sep 2023 3.00pm)

It's a valid point and should be a top priority for any government. Energy and food security, identifying where the country has an over reliance on something from a particular country e.g. lithium for batteries or computer chips from China.

Sadly I don't see any party has the wit or balls to address it.

One more point

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cryrst The garden of England 13 Sep 23 4.37pm
Originally posted by Badger11 It's a valid point and should be a top priority for any government. Energy and food security, identifying where the country has an over reliance on something from a particular country e.g. lithium for batteries or computer chips from China. Sadly I don't see any party has the wit or balls to address it. The issue is that speculate to accumulate isn’t in any way wanted. To many loveys protecting and fighting battles for a tiny minority. In a way Truss was correct in what she tried to do but it was too much too soon. Having a self reliant country takes balls to do and stick to. The ones who have the west hate. And they are either socialist or communist ironically!
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cryrst

The garden of England 13 Sep 23 4.37pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Sadly I don't see any party has the wit or balls to address it.

The issue is that speculate to accumulate isn’t in any way wanted. To many loveys protecting and fighting battles for a tiny minority. In a way Truss was correct in what she tried to do but it was too much too soon. Having a self reliant country takes balls to do and stick to. The ones who have the west hate. And they are either socialist or communist ironically!

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PalazioVecchio south pole 13 Sep 23 9.37pm
Originally posted by Badger11 It's a valid point and should be a top priority for any government. Energy and food security good in theory. In practice, there are a ton of countries that produce neither. For their living, they rely on Tourism, or Financial services or whatever. How could you make Malta self-sufficient ? or Hong Kong ? Eze Peasy at Anfield....
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 13 Sep 23 9.37pm

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Originally posted by Badger11

It's a valid point and should be a top priority for any government. Energy and food security

good in theory. In practice, there are a ton of countries that produce neither. For their living, they rely on Tourism, or Financial services or whatever.

How could you make Malta self-sufficient ? or Hong Kong ?

Eze Peasy at Anfield....

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HKOwen Hong Kong 13 Sep 23 11.08pm
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio good in theory. In practice, there are a ton of countries that produce neither. For their living, they rely on Tourism, or Financial services or whatever. How could you make Malta self-sufficient ? or Hong Kong ? Hong Kong is entirely dependent on imported food so in that sense self sufficiency is a non starter Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 13 Sep 23 11.08pm

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

good in theory. In practice, there are a ton of countries that produce neither. For their living, they rely on Tourism, or Financial services or whatever.

How could you make Malta self-sufficient ? or Hong Kong ?

Hong Kong is entirely dependent on imported food so in that sense self sufficiency is a non starter

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Badger11 Beckenham 14 Sep 23 7.54am
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio good in theory. In practice, there are a ton of countries that produce neither. For their living, they rely on Tourism, or Financial services or whatever. How could you make Malta self-sufficient ? or Hong Kong ? Of course but I was really thinking about the UK we are big enough and rich enough. There are so many things we are dependent on from certain dodgy countries it just amazes me that politicians fail to see this and only do so when the shinola hits the fan e.g. masks and gowns coming from China during lockdown. Decades ago when we were told that our power stations were getting old, the experts told us we would be relying on oil and gas from Russia and the Middle East. The politicians did nothing, today the experts are telling us that as we switch to electric cars the amount of electricity the country will need will go up significantly, seen any new power stations lately? . Our leaders sit on their hands and can't even get an unreliable wind farm built without it taking years. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 14 Sep 23 7.54am

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

good in theory. In practice, there are a ton of countries that produce neither. For their living, they rely on Tourism, or Financial services or whatever.

How could you make Malta self-sufficient ? or Hong Kong ?

Of course but I was really thinking about the UK we are big enough and rich enough.

There are so many things we are dependent on from certain dodgy countries it just amazes me that politicians fail to see this and only do so when the shinola hits the fan e.g. masks and gowns coming from China during lockdown.

Decades ago when we were told that our power stations were getting old, the experts told us we would be relying on oil and gas from Russia and the Middle East. The politicians did nothing, today the experts are telling us that as we switch to electric cars the amount of electricity the country will need will go up significantly, seen any new power stations lately? .

Our leaders sit on their hands and can't even get an unreliable wind farm built without it taking years.

One more point

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