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March 3 2024 5.48am

What Have the Owners done Wrong?

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View CpfcWeTrust1's Profile CpfcWeTrust1 Flag 06 Feb 24 12.02pm Send a Private Message to CpfcWeTrust1 Add CpfcWeTrust1 as a friend

Originally posted by Den1923

Clearly we have disagree on Parish, the facts are there for all to see. I do not think anyone will disagree that what Parish and his fellow directors did in 2010 was truly outstanding, however that was 2010 or 14 years ago. What I am talking about is today and the future, Parish has allowed the squad depth to dwindle so much that at least half of those on the bench and in the current would not stand up in the championship or maybe even in L1. The options outside the top 7/8 players is very limited and even more so when
some of that 7/8 get injured. Those on the bench, that you mention warming the seats are often only there because there because there are no other options available. It is a difficult decision for whoever is the manager when you lack quality in depth. PV came in after Roy retired and was then sacked because we lacked the squad quality to consistently perform well with his style of play. Parish called back Roy and he saved us yet again. Roy then retired again, Parish tried to find a Manager, alas, no Manager was prepared to take the job under the terms and way Parish likes to operate. To prove the point Roy was called back, rightly or wrongly as it is the only option he had left. Then last summer summer Parish spent circa 40m on Henderson/Holding/Franca, neither of which we desperately needed and from what I have seen they are at this point in time not good investments when what we need most of all is a defender who can dominate in the air and a striker who can consistently score goals. I rest my case and just hope Parish does not relegate us as is looking more likely as each game passes!

Again Den I respect your point of view.

I just don't think any of it is that easy to get right and within the constraints of FFP for Palace. We sell next to nobody.We have a stadium that's in need of an upgrade or 6 and the squad depth I don't think is as bad as its made out. Franca hasn't been given a good chance, Holding is on the injury list and Henderson ....I agree wasn't worth £20 mill and agreed that was a bad use of money.

The other lads need to be given some time to play when we aren't 3-0 down or 5 mins from the end.

I hope we will be ok this season and if we are, then I expect the team once we don't have all the players injured. It will look not as bad.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 06 Feb 24 12.15pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by SurbsEagle

The Premier League is not the be all and end all of football. Clubs who have fantastic owners have been relegated from the Premier League before and will again.

Without harking on about it but, given where we were in 2010 - relegation is not the worst thing that COULD happen to this football club. I, of course, don't want it to happen and also don't think it will happen this season.

We have a brilliant training facility, top class academy, prospects of an improved stadium, the infrastructure around the club has vastly improved since the owners took over and we also have the highest squad value we've ever had.
Why would anyone protest against this, given where we have come from in just 14 years?

Because football fans are emotionally reactive to say the least and often lack the longer term thinking/perspective an owner may hold, in fact quite the opposite, a bad loss to a rival for instance.

You've made some really good points the SurbsEagle apropos the state of things outside of the players/performances on the pitch.

I am still of the 'careful what you wish for' mindset with regards to Parish. He's done wonders for our club but I do believe that can exist simultaneously alongside discontent with the core essence of it, what we see week in/week out on a football pitch.

I wouldn't mind some more pointed criticism however when I see 'Parish Out' banners, and I know it's an infuriating response, I can't help but think 'and what will that achieve?'. I'd rather, for instance, see banners displayed saying 'buy a f**king winger to replace Wilf', 'stop spending money on youngsters whilst the first XI is struggling' or 'change the depressing football'. I could always do an Arsenal and get some A4 sheets printed out I suppose

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 06 Feb 24 12.34pm Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by CpfcWeTrust1

Again Den I respect your point of view.

I just don't think any of it is that easy to get right and within the constraints of FFP for Palace. We sell next to nobody.We have a stadium that's in need of an upgrade or 6 and the squad depth I don't think is as bad as its made out. Franca hasn't been given a good chance, Holding is on the injury list and Henderson ....I agree wasn't worth £20 mill and agreed that was a bad use of money.

The other lads need to be given some time to play when we aren't 3-0 down or 5 mins from the end.

I hope we will be ok this season and if we are, then I expect the team once we don't have all the players injured. It will look not as bad.

I think that's part of the problem.

I totally get that you don't want to lose your best players, and in an ideal world we would build a team around them.

Only we can't afford to. And there is no conveyor belt of young players coming through.

So you might have to sell one in order to fund the purchase of another two. I know that's not as easy as it sounds but at the moment we aren't trying either of those options.

 


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View SurbsEagle's Profile SurbsEagle Flag 06 Feb 24 1.31pm Send a Private Message to SurbsEagle Add SurbsEagle as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Because football fans are emotionally reactive to say the least and often lack the longer term thinking/perspective an owner may hold, in fact quite the opposite, a bad loss to a rival for instance.

You've made some really good points the SurbsEagle apropos the state of things outside of the players/performances on the pitch.

I am still of the 'careful what you wish for' mindset with regards to Parish. He's done wonders for our club but I do believe that can exist simultaneously alongside discontent with the core essence of it, what we see week in/week out on a football pitch.

I wouldn't mind some more pointed criticism however when I see 'Parish Out' banners, and I know it's an infuriating response, I can't help but think 'and what will that achieve?'. I'd rather, for instance, see banners displayed saying 'buy a f**king winger to replace Wilf', 'stop spending money on youngsters whilst the first XI is struggling' or 'change the depressing football'. I could always do an Arsenal and get some A4 sheets printed out I suppose

I completely agree with everything you have said to be honest. Parish isn't perfect, nor is anyone really, but he has and continues to do a very good job of growing Crystal Palace in stature - which I assume would be his only objective over any singular result.

The football is absolutely dire and we have had to sit through Pulis, Allardyce and Warnock era's since being in the Prem so that is saying something! Roy Hodgson should not be manager of CPFC in 2024 and that is blatantly obvious for anyone to see. Aside from that, I think everything else pinned on Parish at the moment wouldn't be quite as dramatic if we were in a better position in the league.

 

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View RednBlue Eagle's Profile RednBlue Eagle Flag Horsham 06 Feb 24 1.36pm Send a Private Message to RednBlue Eagle Add RednBlue Eagle as a friend

I must have been writing this as you were posting yours and it seems we agree.

I have been following the comments on this site for a number of years but never registered until now. I, like many others out there, are extremely angry about the negativity that surrounds our club. However very few are looking at the whole picture. I have gone to extreme lengths over the last four or five seasons to collect statistics regarding effectiveness of each player, the management team and the ownership of the club. Even my wife keeps telling me you get what you pay for. I am afraid on this occasion she is not far from the truth. I am not talking about the price of players but the management and coaching staff. You cannot make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, but you can make a great player out of a good player. We have some good young talent in our academy now and did long before our academy became a first class establishment. What have we done with it? With the exception of one or two we have left it to rot in the reserves until the contracts ran out.
When money is short you have to use the assets that you have. I attended the game in which our young talent played Valencia in the PL International Cup Semi Final. There was so much good football played, especially early on but most of our team have never seen the bench for the 1st team let alone get on the pitch. When we loan players out it is to EFL Lge 1 or 2 or even non-league. These players need to stretch themselves in order to get better not go somewhere they are “comfortable”.
In the semi-final they clearly faded which suggests that they are not getting the stamina training they need and recurring injuries in the 1st team suggest they are not warming up (and down) properly and possibly not getting the correct medical checks or even dietary requirements. We need a shake up and it is worth spending a bit extra on a quality coaching team instead of relying on a team that have “been around for a long time”. Good coaches will save us a fortune on players and may even make us a few bob in player sales.
Don’t blame the owners they are keeping the club financially healthier than most other clubs.
Let me know if you agree.

 

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View CpfcWeTrust1's Profile CpfcWeTrust1 Flag 06 Feb 24 1.45pm Send a Private Message to CpfcWeTrust1 Add CpfcWeTrust1 as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

I think that's part of the problem.

I totally get that you don't want to lose your best players, and in an ideal world we would build a team around them.

Only we can't afford to. And there is no conveyor belt of young players coming through.

So you might have to sell one in order to fund the purchase of another two. I know that's not as easy as it sounds but at the moment we aren't trying either of those options.

100%

 

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View Wilbraham413's Profile Wilbraham413 Flag 06 Feb 24 11.42pm Send a Private Message to Wilbraham413 Add Wilbraham413 as a friend

It just takes one or two bad windows to drag a club downward. Like Parish said, if you're staying still, you're falling behind.

I think what we're missing most right now is 1-2 strong veteran leaders, who keep everyone in line, and who have been through some wars in the past. Our current squad is so lightweight, with really no leaders. It's a squad of mostly "Type B" personalities.

Signing Olise, Eze, Doucoure, and Guehi was a masterstroke by the club, but after that, I think they went too far in the direction of prospective gambling on young players (Franca, Ahamada, you can even say Munoz and Wharton, although I think they were both good signings) when they should have been signing a couple older more established players to balance things out. Lerma is an example of a player we could use more of. He's older and has no resell value, but he has been very valuable on the pitch this season.

Also, I have no idea what is going on with our goalkeepers, but that has turned into a bizarre and expensive mistake.

So I guess in general, since we hit the lottery on Eze, Olise, Doucoure, and Guehi, we got complacent and thought we could do no wrong.

Edited by Wilbraham413 (06 Feb 2024 11.42pm)

 


2017 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Middlesboro
2018 Jan. (Sako) Palace 1 - 0 Burnley
2019 May (Batshuayi, Batshuayi, OG, Van Aanholt, Townsend) Palace 5 - 3 Bournemouth
2020 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Newcastle

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View radicalsteve's Profile radicalsteve Flag ottawa 07 Feb 24 1.13am Send a Private Message to radicalsteve Add radicalsteve as a friend

Originally posted by Wilbraham413

It just takes one or two bad windows to drag a club downward. Like Parish said, if you're staying still, you're falling behind.

I think what we're missing most right now is 1-2 strong veteran leaders, who keep everyone in line, and who have been through some wars in the past. Our current squad is so lightweight, with really no leaders. It's a squad of mostly "Type B" personalities.

Signing Olise, Eze, Doucoure, and Guehi was a masterstroke by the club, but after that, I think they went too far in the direction of prospective gambling on young players (Franca, Ahamada, you can even say Munoz and Wharton, although I think they were both good signings) when they should have been signing a couple older more established players to balance things out. Lerma is an example of a player we could use more of. He's older and has no resell value, but he has been very valuable on the pitch this season.

Also, I have no idea what is going on with our goalkeepers, but that has turned into a bizarre and expensive mistake.

So I guess in general, since we hit the lottery on Eze, Olise, Doucoure, and Guehi, we got complacent and thought we could do no wrong.

Edited by Wilbraham413 (06 Feb 2024 11.42pm)

Some very insightful post on this thread.....

While Wilf was a bit of a moaner he was also very animated and clearly showed frustration, not necessarily the best leadership qualities, but it was a display of passion for all to see! Similarly, I noted Olise getting frustrated with his colleagues on the pitch - the good players versus the mediocre. We need that leadership, vocal, galvanizing belief and total passion on the pitch. Witness the commitment of Dunk, who epitomized the rivalry that these days is absent from our lot.

Another failure of Hodgson teams, (and said of Viera as well when he was under pressure), is that of a lack of overall team identity. You are not quite sure what you are going to get when the team goes on. Ayew puts in a good shift for sure, and recently Mateta has run his socks off and Olise definitely has a go, but the rest seem to be ambivalent. We used to be known as a solid defending team with counter-attacking that could do damage, but all that seems to have evaporated now. This, for me, is the primary reason Roy and Co must GO!

 

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 07 Feb 24 7.19am Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by RednBlue Eagle

I must have been writing this as you were posting yours and it seems we agree.

I have been following the comments on this site for a number of years but never registered until now. I, like many others out there, are extremely angry about the negativity that surrounds our club. However very few are looking at the whole picture. I have gone to extreme lengths over the last four or five seasons to collect statistics regarding effectiveness of each player, the management team and the ownership of the club. Even my wife keeps telling me you get what you pay for. I am afraid on this occasion she is not far from the truth. I am not talking about the price of players but the management and coaching staff. You cannot make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, but you can make a great player out of a good player. We have some good young talent in our academy now and did long before our academy became a first class establishment. What have we done with it? With the exception of one or two we have left it to rot in the reserves until the contracts ran out.
When money is short you have to use the assets that you have. I attended the game in which our young talent played Valencia in the PL International Cup Semi Final. There was so much good football played, especially early on but most of our team have never seen the bench for the 1st team let alone get on the pitch. When we loan players out it is to EFL Lge 1 or 2 or even non-league. These players need to stretch themselves in order to get better not go somewhere they are “comfortable”.
In the semi-final they clearly faded which suggests that they are not getting the stamina training they need and recurring injuries in the 1st team suggest they are not warming up (and down) properly and possibly not getting the correct medical checks or even dietary requirements. We need a shake up and it is worth spending a bit extra on a quality coaching team instead of relying on a team that have “been around for a long time”. Good coaches will save us a fortune on players and may even make us a few bob in player sales.
Don’t blame the owners they are keeping the club financially healthier than most other clubs.
Let me know if you agree.

You raise some interesting points, not least of which questions the quality of coaching in the Academy. It's something I have been considering too. There's little point in the structure attracting talent if that talent isn't being developed properly. The actual teams at U18 and U21 are very competitive and get good results. But, with the exception of Ozoh, we aren't seeing a path to the first team for anyone else. Having invested so heavily in the Academy, I am sure ( ok I hope ) that it's performance is reviewed. That's in terms of developing individuals through to the first team, and the sale of players that aren't going to make that standard but have enough about them to generate a fee.

I don't agree with your point about where Palace lend to. The players end up playing at a level that they are deemed capable of. Only Rak-Sakyi has attracted the attention of Championship clubs having proved himself at L1 level. Those players clearly aren't in a ' comfort zone ' as none of them progress past it !

Recent injuries have brought the medical team into sharp focus, understandably, but I very much doubt that they are anything but professional. There seems to be a disconnect between the advice they give and how it is received by the manager.

 


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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 07 Feb 24 8.04am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Originally posted by Wilbraham413

It just takes one or two bad windows to drag a club downward. Like Parish said, if you're staying still, you're falling behind.

I think what we're missing most right now is 1-2 strong veteran leaders, who keep everyone in line, and who have been through some wars in the past. Our current squad is so lightweight, with really no leaders. It's a squad of mostly "Type B" personalities.

Signing Olise, Eze, Doucoure, and Guehi was a masterstroke by the club, but after that, I think they went too far in the direction of prospective gambling on young players (Franca, Ahamada, you can even say Munoz and Wharton, although I think they were both good signings) when they should have been signing a couple older more established players to balance things out. Lerma is an example of a player we could use more of. He's older and has no resell value, but he has been very valuable on the pitch this season.

Also, I have no idea what is going on with our goalkeepers, but that has turned into a bizarre and expensive mistake.

So I guess in general, since we hit the lottery on Eze, Olise, Doucoure, and Guehi, we got complacent and thought we could do no wrong.

Edited by Wilbraham413 (06 Feb 2024 11.42pm)

I thought we used Lerma all we can when he is fit.

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View The Dolphin's Profile The Dolphin Flag 07 Feb 24 8.25am Send a Private Message to The Dolphin Add The Dolphin as a friend

I got one would not criticise Steve Parish.
He is Palace through and through and a bloody good Businessman.
He does what is best for us within the confines of the size of Club that we are.
Has he made mistakes - probably, on purpose - never.
He will be hurting like the rest of us and he will sort things out.

 

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View MFW94's Profile MFW94 Flag Sutton 07 Feb 24 8.32am Send a Private Message to MFW94 Add MFW94 as a friend

I posted this on another thread yesterday but I feel it may be more relevant on this one...

My main issue is that we sacked PV in March 2023, and since then we should have been scouring the world and europe for a suitable manager to join in the summer.

When it got to July and we still hadnt appointed anyone, it was clearly obvious they were going to reppoint roy.

Here we are a year later, with the same 2/3 manager names being mentioned, still with Roy in charge.

Why has the club in nearly 12 months not had a suitable shortlist with achievable to get managers - hate to go on about brighton but they had a list ready to go when Potter left, Bournemouth had a list of managers and got Idraola early. i can bet Brentford already have a list of suitable managers to replace Frank when he leaves.

I am unsure what Parish, Freedman and the board have been looking at for 12 months.

Theres a world of managers out there outside of Cooper and Potter if you search in the right places.

We are a premier league club for crying out loud, it seems we are still miles behind and other clubs have overtaken us

I dont expect us to be a top half side or pushing for europe, but an ownership with a clear succession plan and communication should be a given.


Edited by MFW94 (07 Feb 2024 8.33am)

 

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