Forest Hill stabbing
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 Hrolf The Ganger  07 Jan 17 7.08pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
That's why I hope none of them ever meet you. Congratulations. You are the living embodiment of why Brexit and Donald Trump won.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Jan 17 7.39pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Next week, Hrolfs treatise on why it's rotten that phrenology gets a bad press. Actlly from a scientific point of view race isnt a real thing. It does exist psychology in peoples minds but in truth there is no biological basis of race. Sociologically we have ethnicity and culture natures but these are learned behaviours.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 Jan 17 7.47pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Congratulations. You are the living embodiment of why Brexit and Donald Trump won. Donald Trump won because I believe you have iffy views on other ethnicities.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 07 Jan 17 8.30pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Donald Trump won because I believe you have iffy views on other ethnicities. Really? Wow! I never knew that.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 09 Jan 17 9.52am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Congratulations. You are the living embodiment of why Brexit and Donald Trump won. Brexit stood or fell on the Freedom of Movement and largely only succeed based on its impact on working class areas and employment (notably wages). There are reasonable arguments as to why Brexit should occur, and equally reasonable arguments about why it shouldn't. Trump won because a very large portion of the American electorate are stupid enough to be fooled all of the time. They selected a man who was proven to be lying repeatedly, over someone who he alleged was lying. The man is an almost pathological liar, with a penchant for just saying whatever his supporters want to hear. He wasn't even the most popular candidate among the electorate, in a two horse race. It was really a choice between two people who shouldn't be in power, and it highlights the absurdity of US democratic systems (and a in extent our own) in how power is preserved to the privileged and elite, and how it exploits the general concerns and fears of ordinary people to preserve and extend that power. Truth is, whoever the US chose, they were getting a s**t choice, which is no choice at all. Its the illusion of democracy. The US will get the president it deserves. Hopefully it will learn its lesson.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 09 Jan 17 10.05am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I don't want to "adapt". Why would I? I promise you there will a big problem adapting to 600,000 migrants per year(300,000 net) and increasing for the foreseeable future. Why shouldn't you - people change and adapt to social change and influences on a continual basis. But that's besides the point The problem isn't per se the migration, its the temporary nature of that migration. For a vast number of people coming here, there is no incentive to form long term ties to society, because around half the 500,000 figure arriving each year is coupled with o around 250,000 returning. Traditionally migration into the UK has been permanent, with individuals having to construct new lives in a new country, which has generally meant a need to adapt into the communities around them, and that in general those communities have adapted to them. If you're going to be in a country for maybe two years, the incentive is more akin to maybe being a student in a city or someone travelling, rather than someone who is going to live there. All ties are temporary and tend to be geared towards a recreational engagement. Also of course politicians couldn't get away without dealing with impact on services, such as the NHS etc because they needed the votes of the new citizens, as well as the existing ones. Now its less necessary - Because you don't have an influx of new voters, and the existing population will likely have fixed political views that prevent them switching votes. Adaptation has to work both ways, and it requires social incentive. The less someone needs to adapt the more 'like a tourist' they're likely to become. I don't think crime is a major issue either, its an issue, but we have the capacity to deal with that.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 09 Jan 17 10.46am |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Actlly from a scientific point of view race isnt a real thing. It does exist psychology in peoples minds but in truth there is no biological basis of race. Sociologically we have ethnicity and culture natures but these are learned behaviours. If race does not exist, why was there a Race Relations Act. Why are people charged with 'racially aggravated' offences in ever increasing situations. Couldn't they put forward a defence that as race 'isn't a real thing', it is not possible to be racist. Why is discrimination on the grounds of race included in the Equality Act of 2010, or perhaps equality isn't a real thing either, perhaps nothing is real, perhaps the entire universe is a 'social construct'.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 09 Jan 17 11.50am |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
If race does not exist, why was there a Race Relations Act. Why are people charged with 'racially aggravated' offences in ever increasing situations. Couldn't they put forward a defence that as race 'isn't a real thing', it is not possible to be racist. Why is discrimination on the grounds of race included in the Equality Act of 2010, or perhaps equality isn't a real thing either, perhaps nothing is real, perhaps the entire universe is a 'social construct'. Because people think its a real thing, largely because they've not paid attention to biology in the last 40 years or so. Racial theory and theories of race are based on biological differences between races. These are completely unfounded, as genetic similarities across racial groups, are much much larger than similarities - In fact there is only one race, the Human Race. Sociological and psychologically, people still believe in the idea of a race, when what they really mean are concepts like ethnic groups and cultural beliefs - Which are not defined in relation to biology. Its important to remember that the idea of race is as a scientific, biological term that identifies sub-groups of homo sapian as distinct (typically to identify superior and inferior sub-species). Of course people still discriminate on the basis of race, but that's because they're remarkably ignorant and stupid, believing in a disproven scientific concept.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 09 Jan 17 12.59pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Because people think its a real thing, largely because they've not paid attention to biology in the last 40 years or so. Racial theory and theories of race are based on biological differences between races. These are completely unfounded, as genetic similarities across racial groups, are much much larger than similarities - In fact there is only one race, the Human Race. Sociological and psychologically, people still believe in the idea of a race, when what they really mean are concepts like ethnic groups and cultural beliefs - Which are not defined in relation to biology. Its important to remember that the idea of race is as a scientific, biological term that identifies sub-groups of homo sapian as distinct (typically to identify superior and inferior sub-species). Of course people still discriminate on the basis of race, but that's because they're remarkably ignorant and stupid, believing in a disproven scientific concept. So we prosecute people for crimes against races although races do not exist. Isn't that a bit like the witchcraft trials of the past.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 09 Jan 17 12.59pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Brexit stood or fell on the Freedom of Movement and largely only succeed based on its impact on working class areas and employment (notably wages). There are reasonable arguments as to why Brexit should occur, and equally reasonable arguments about why it shouldn't. Trump won because a very large portion of the American electorate are stupid enough to be fooled all of the time. They selected a man who was proven to be lying repeatedly, over someone who he alleged was lying. The man is an almost pathological liar, with a penchant for just saying whatever his supporters want to hear. He wasn't even the most popular candidate among the electorate, in a two horse race. It was really a choice between two people who shouldn't be in power, and it highlights the absurdity of US democratic systems (and a in extent our own) in how power is preserved to the privileged and elite, and how it exploits the general concerns and fears of ordinary people to preserve and extend that power. Truth is, whoever the US chose, they were getting a s**t choice, which is no choice at all. Its the illusion of democracy. The US will get the president it deserves. Hopefully it will learn its lesson. All politicians are liars. They have to be. The bottom line is that Trump won because a large part of White America saw him as a better bet to represent their interests than Clinton. More so than Europe, the States has experiences vast numbers of migrants crossing the border. It's not what most of the the existing population want.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 09 Jan 17 1.05pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Why shouldn't you - people change and adapt to social change and influences on a continual basis. But that's besides the point The problem isn't per se the migration, its the temporary nature of that migration. For a vast number of people coming here, there is no incentive to form long term ties to society, because around half the 500,000 figure arriving each year is coupled with o around 250,000 returning. Traditionally migration into the UK has been permanent, with individuals having to construct new lives in a new country, which has generally meant a need to adapt into the communities around them, and that in general those communities have adapted to them. If you're going to be in a country for maybe two years, the incentive is more akin to maybe being a student in a city or someone travelling, rather than someone who is going to live there. All ties are temporary and tend to be geared towards a recreational engagement. Also of course politicians couldn't get away without dealing with impact on services, such as the NHS etc because they needed the votes of the new citizens, as well as the existing ones. Now its less necessary - Because you don't have an influx of new voters, and the existing population will likely have fixed political views that prevent them switching votes. Adaptation has to work both ways, and it requires social incentive. The less someone needs to adapt the more 'like a tourist' they're likely to become. I don't think crime is a major issue either, its an issue, but we have the capacity to deal with that. Once again, there are few pros for the majority of people but plenty of cons. Why would one want to adapt to disadvantage?
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 09 Jan 17 1.15pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Once again, there are few pros for the majority of people but plenty of cons. Why would one want to adapt to disadvantage? Lots of people have had to adapt to disadvantages due to austerity. How does immigration disadvantage you?
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