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Stadium Redevelopment

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 17 Mar 18 12.02pm Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Mapletree

At the moment around 3500 positive comments and 80 negative. We need the other 30000 regular fans to add their voices quickly. Looks like the negatives are almost all from SE25. No surprise but the ground was certainly there before they were. They probably got their houses cheap as a result.

I think (and I stand to be corrected) the website should list the names and addresses of all respondents to the Application. Most Council websites also publish the letters/emails on the website too.
I don't think the numbers are too important at this stage, only in relation to where the respondents live.
3500 positive comments are unlikely to originate from the area immediately around the ground.
However, the 80 negative comments are most likely to be from those residents to be most directly effected.
It depends on the seriousness of the issues raised, and whether the Council feels the project needs to take them into account.
CPFC have played their opening hand, and it's a good one. There just might need to be a few tweeks here and there in order to address objections.

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (17 Mar 2018 12.09pm)

 


"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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View Goldfiinger's Profile Goldfiinger Flag Just down the road 17 Mar 18 6.06pm Send a Private Message to Goldfiinger Add Goldfiinger as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Would imagine some of those 80 are from Brighton and Hove residents!

 

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 18 Mar 18 12.54pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Goldfiinger

Does anyone else think that the new stand is part of a longer term project...

Which will enable the club to grow the support base gradually and one by one upgrade each stand accordingly so in a decade or two we may have two more new stands each capable of holding approximately 8000 more in each...

Would end up with a capacity of over 50k.

No idea if this has been looked at in detail by the club... but as there targeting only one stand it really does leave the options open for further future expansion once our fan base catches up.

Slowly building a proper rival stadium to match the big London clubs?

I was thinking about this recently, and I doubt we'll ever get even to a 40,000 capacity.

The current main stand plans would take capacity of that one area from 5/6k to 13/14k, and the overall capacity to 34,000. However, the Arthur already holds nearly 10,000, so even if we built a stand there as big as the proposed new main stand, we'd only be increasing capacity by about 4000 in that one stand, giving us a total capacity of 38000, with three sides of the ground fully redeveloped into tall two or three tier structures.

That only leaves the Whitehorse, and the most I could ever imagine there is sticking a fairly small upper tier above the executive boxes. That would be hugely complex, probably not a particularly likely or viable idea at all, and would likely only take us up to about 40,000 if we ever could do it.

All in all I wouldn't expect us to be aiming for a 50,000 stadium at any stage, unless the club can pull the mother of all rabbits out of the hat.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 18 Mar 18 1.02pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

I was thinking about this recently, and I doubt we'll ever get even to a 40,000 capacity.

The current main stand plans would take capacity of that one area from 5/6k to 13/14k, and the overall capacity to 34,000. However, the Arthur already holds nearly 10,000, so even if we built a stand there as big as the proposed new main stand, we'd only be increasing capacity by about 4000 in that one stand, giving us a total capacity of 38000, with three sides of the ground fully redeveloped into tall two or three tier structures.

That only leaves the Whitehorse, and the most I could ever imagine there is sticking a fairly small upper tier above the executive boxes. That would be hugely complex, probably not a particularly likely or viable idea at all, and would likely only take us up to about 40,000 if we ever could do it.

All in all I wouldn't expect us to be aiming for a 50,000 stadium at any stage, unless the club can pull the mother of all rabbits out of the hat.

What about filling in the corners how much would that add?

 


One more point

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View crystal-purley's Profile crystal-purley Flag Purley 18 Mar 18 1.05pm Send a Private Message to crystal-purley Add crystal-purley as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Goldfiinger

Would imagine some of those 80 are from Brighton and Hove residents!

What does it have to do with Arsenal fans?

 


Enjoying getting up later and not having someone who knows better than me (apart from the missus of course).

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 18 Mar 18 1.26pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Badger11

What about filling in the corners how much would that add?

Not much I'd guess. The current proposed new main stand comes with filled in corners either side of the holmesdale and that adds up to 34,000 total, so if we built a replica stand in place of the Arthur I presume the same would apply. My rough estimate maths in my last post are based on the corners being filled.

The Arthur is a big old bit of land, much bigger footprint than the main stand, so perhaps we could squeeze a few more thousand out of a new stand there than we can in the main stand, but to get us to 50,000 a new Arthur stand would have to hold 26000 people!

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 18 Mar 18 7.52pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

I think (and I stand to be corrected) the website should list the names and addresses of all respondents to the Application. Most Council websites also publish the letters/emails on the website too.
I don't think the numbers are too important at this stage, only in relation to where the respondents live.
3500 positive comments are unlikely to originate from the area immediately around the ground.
However, the 80 negative comments are most likely to be from those residents to be most directly effected.
It depends on the seriousness of the issues raised, and whether the Council feels the project needs to take them into account.
CPFC have played their opening hand, and it's a good one. There just might need to be a few tweeks here and there in order to address objections.

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (17 Mar 2018 12.09pm)

It does list the names and addresses and plenty are on the Holmesdale Road

My point, and I stand to be corrected on this, is that if there is a massive response from Palace fans it will surely increase the pressure on the Council. I am sure that those in the immediate locale will have a strong voice but maybe by weight of numbers we can put in some balance.

Which presumably is whey Steve Parish asked us all to do just that and go online to add our opinions.

Edited by Mapletree (18 Mar 2018 7.53pm)

 

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 19 Mar 18 12.38am Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Objections ,(and I haven't looked), are likely to be centred around
* increased people traffic
* increased noise
* increased litter

all of which can be addressed. The stadium was here before the residents moved in

 


"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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View adrian b's Profile adrian b Flag Landrindod, Wales 19 Mar 18 4.59am Send a Private Message to adrian b Add adrian b as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Objections ,(and I haven't looked), are likely to be centred around
* increased people traffic
* increased noise
* increased litter

all of which can be addressed. The stadium was here before the residents moved in


We need to be careful using historical arguments. We must suppose the area was all farming land originally and the logic of the above post would mean we take that into consideration.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 19 Mar 18 7.26am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Mapletree

It does list the names and addresses and plenty are on the Holmesdale Road

My point, and I stand to be corrected on this, is that if there is a massive response from Palace fans it will surely increase the pressure on the Council. I am sure that those in the immediate locale will have a strong voice but maybe by weight of numbers we can put in some balance.

Which presumably is whey Steve Parish asked us all to do just that and go online to add our opinions.

Edited by Mapletree (18 Mar 2018 7.53pm)

True. I would remind Croydon council that Charlton fans even fielded candidates at the local election and held the balance of power temporarily on Greenwich council. They agreed to stand down in return for the council agreeing to let them back to the valley.

With the local elections due in May we should start a campaign now. Ask the local council candidates from the major parties doe they support the planning application. If yes then palace fans will support them. If no then palace fans will support the alternate candidates. Lets make this an election issue after all this is supposed to be a local election.

 


One more point

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View bexleydave's Profile bexleydave Flag Barnehurst 19 Mar 18 7.46am Send a Private Message to bexleydave Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add bexleydave as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Badger11

True. I would remind Croydon council that Charlton fans even fielded candidates at the local election and held the balance of power temporarily on Greenwich council. They agreed to stand down in return for the council agreeing to let them back to the valley.

With the local elections due in May we should start a campaign now. Ask the local council candidates from the major parties doe they support the planning application. If yes then palace fans will support them. If no then palace fans will support the alternate candidates. Lets make this an election issue after all this is supposed to be a local election.

You are rewriting history somewhat:

"the Valley Party won 10.9% of the vote in Greenwich,...not enough to gain them a councillor"

[Link]

The Charlton campaign was to save their ground, a somewhat different issue to ourselves who want to build an enormous new stand. And what percentage of the residents of Croydon do you suppose are actually Palace supporters anyway?

Parish is playing this exactly right, with a reasonable and measured approach. Any attempt to bully the council will be the quickest route to seeing our plans in the bin.

 


Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 19 Mar 18 8.08am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by bexleydave

You are rewriting history somewhat:

"the Valley Party won 10.9% of the vote in Greenwich,...not enough to gain them a councillor"

[Link]

The Charlton campaign was to save their ground, a somewhat different issue to ourselves who want to build an enormous new stand. And what percentage of the residents of Croydon do you suppose are actually Palace supporters anyway?

Parish is playing this exactly right, with a reasonable and measured approach. Any attempt to bully the council will be the quickest route to seeing our plans in the bin.

Apologies your are correct on that point I thought they won 2 seats. Never the less the article points out that they did make an impact and it became an issue and they achieved their aim.

Local elections should be about local issues and not a referendum on the government of the day. This is a local issue but at the moment I suspect that it is not on the radar of the public and the local candidates. I do not see any downside in raising this with the council and the local press.

 


One more point

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