The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 1.26pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
Indeed. How many more times! It was a referendum. Not a game of football. It carried no legal status. It showed that 4% more of the people preferred the leave option to the remain option. Then the matter returned to Parliament where the actual decisions are made and where votes actually count. They made promises which they have been unable, so far, to deliver on. Your version of Brexit is not supported by Parliament. Not all those who voted leave will want your version but what the split would be is unknown because that wasn't asked in the referendum. So to claim that your view "won" is simply untrue because we don't know. All we know is the result of a binary referendum. The result on June 23rd was a victory for those of us who wish for the UK to leave the EU. No-one in their right mind ought to view the last 3 years as a "victory". The leave campaign secured the biggest share of the votes but the consequences have been disastrous for all of us. Primarily because of the unforeseen difficulties involved in actually leaving in a secure way which have been exacerbated by those who have sought to undermine the importance of Parliamentary democracy and the way it serves us. Now that might well be scuppered by Parliament and they will suffer the wrath accordingly but this ludicrous notion that somehow we have to make an accommodation with Remainers is beyond derision. Making an "accommodation" was exactly how this started in trying to satisfy the Eurosceptics by agreeing to hold a referendum. That was done but now you want their views, and their views alone, to be all that matters?
Farage had already said he would be continuing his campaign. And whilst I cannot speak for all Leavers, I would have swallowed it all. Respecting the vote and believing that there was nothing to be gained anymore by pushing the point. We wanted a vote and it was lost. C'est la vie. That is how democracy works. Had our chance and was found wanting. It happens. And most "remainers", me included, respect the vote. What many, me included, cannot accept is to do so in a way that is seen by those in Parliament, whose job it is to study these things, as causing us unnecessary harm. So just leaving on WTO terms when an alternative, less painful, way is on offer needs to be stopped, in their opinion. Others think that, after such a long time and with increased knowledge, it makes sense to revisit the whole question to check what the current mood of the country is. I don't agree with that. But more fool me right for believing the Remain side felt themselves bound by the same conventions. Shame on you and anybody else who believes that Remain should still even be up for discussion, let alone cheering on a Parliament seemingly intent on blocking our exit. Parliament are not "blocking" the exit! They are refusing a minority government taking us out on terms they don't approve of. That's not only their right, it's their duty.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| dannyboy1978 02 Oct 19 1.28pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Of course I watched it. I have seen that speech before. How could I comment unless I did? I know what he said. It's what politicians say to get your votes all the time. They though also change their minds all the time, as we all do. As Macmillan was reported to have said when asked what was most likely to knock governments off course, "Events, dear boy, events". So what in his speech "was to get your vote"
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 1.33pm |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
A nice unbiased rant from you which yet again turns out to be completely untrue It's completely true. He should not even think of discussing such things at the Tory conference until after presenting them, in person, to Parliament. To do so first is totally disrespectful.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 02 Oct 19 1.34pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Not at all. I just believe in the way we actually do things in the UK. Which is via Parliament. That's the only place where positive and negative results end up as laws. Laws change things. Referendums don't.
Accept it and move on. You will feel better.
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| dannyboy1978 02 Oct 19 2.03pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It's completely true. He should not even think of discussing such things at the Tory conference until after presenting them, in person, to Parliament. To do so first is totally disrespectful. "I know what he said. It's what politicians say to get your votes all the time"
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cryrst  The garden of England 02 Oct 19 2.07pm |
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Originally posted by dannyboy1978
"I know what he said. It's what politicians say to get your votes all the time" Touche
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| steeleye20 Croydon 02 Oct 19 2.13pm |
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A link to the BMA website:- Johnson has the gall to stand there and claim that the tories are 'the party of the NHS'
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Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 02 Oct 19 2.23pm |
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This of course is patently untrue. The first recorded case was of a man in his 70s from Cornwall.......
Pro USA & Israel |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 2.29pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Accept it and move on. You will feel better. I am not the one "banging on about" any grievances"! It's all those who are complaining about their version of Brexit not being done who are doing that! All I am doing is pointing out where the real responsibilities lie and why and how they are being exercised. No PM can ever, at any time, guarantee anything. They always have to achieve Parliamentary approval first and unless and until that has been done nothing can be turned into law.
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| elgrande bedford 02 Oct 19 2.32pm |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
This of course is patently untrue. The first recorded case was of a man in his 70s from Cornwall.......
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 2.43pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
A link to the BMA website:- Johnson has the gall to stand there and claim that the tories are 'the party of the NHS' As the average traditional Tory voter isn't stupid I wonder how long they will tolerate these kind of nonsensical statements. The blatant electioneering give away lies and fake promises are so transparent even the most gullible in the land are going to recognise them for the puffs they are. Clearly a predetermined strategy it has to be designed to appeal to the Brexit party type of voter and those on the left who favour just "getting out". I though wonder if those in the southern shires will tolerate it for long. I saw a Major Blimp type question the wisdom of raising the "living wage" yesterday and eyebrows being raised at the claims that the Tories are now the party of the "working man". This is a very poor government populated by lightweights and manipulated by marketeers controlled by who knows who. Not us, that's for sure.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 02 Oct 19 2.44pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
We are about the hear Johnson deliver the UK's "final offer" to the EU! Which, if the leaks are true, is little more than a bag of wind designed to shift the blame for failure onto them. Leaving the actual "offer" aside though doesn't it demonstrate his total disregard for Parliamentary democracy that he has chosen to deliver this to the Tory Party Conference and not to Parliament? This isn't supposed to be the manifesto for a forthcoming General Election. This is supposed to be the UK's government's proposal on how we will exit the EU in an orderly way. It ought to be put first to Parliament and not to a bunch of Tory activists. I think it demonstrates very clearly that Johnson's real priority is himself and in retaining his position as PM. He has tried to sideline Parliament once and failed. He has lost every vote in the House and is unable to command a majority. Playing party politics at this critical time shows him in his true light and everyone, whatever their political views, ought to condemn that. In fairness to the PM all he has done is tell conference the plan is ready and is going to the EU today and if they like what they see then he will discuss it with parliament. He has only done what many other PMs have done in the past, nothing to see here. Let's wait to see what the EU says and find out the details rather than rely on leaks and hints.
One more point |
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