2020 US Presidential Election. (LOCKED)
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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 24 Nov 20 12.55pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I'd like it to....I think it's the least destructive outcome. What the actual time frame would be isn't easy to say. However, I do think that America will separate at some point in some form yes, where you have different administrations on a federal level. On the theoretical basis of there being two irreconcilable political beliefs, you have a case. From a purely practical view you don't. There are people who hold each belief in every state, even if those on the coasts lean one way and those in the south and mid west another. How do you combine the eastern states and California into one country, with another country in between? How will that stop the internal divisions within the states themselves? Mass re-locations of people? As with the end of British rule in India? How will the military be organised and what weaknesses will result? It isn't going to happen. They have to find a way to work together and peacefully reach compromises. Which is what I see coming from Biden, once he assumes office and is allowed to by the rump of the Trump presidency.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 24 Nov 20 1.09pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I thought you were going to wait, you seem a little invested perhaps. I'm still waiting myself as the republicans plan to get this to the supreme court....but I'd agree it's unlikely to overturn the final result (though the supreme court have little cause to like Biden)...but if they reveal corruption I'm fine with that. If the republicans' concerns on voter fraud are false and they want to stretch it out amongst their supporters for the Biden presidency then I view it as the Democrats reaping what they sowed over their own behaviour. The truth didn't matter up until a few weeks ago....suddenly apparently it does.
The truth has always mattered. The problem for the past 4 years that on one side of the argument the truth has been regarded as whatever Trump was thinking at that moment. So what is it that you believe the Democrats have been sowing? Because I only see a lot of patience, frustration and disbelief at the behaviour not only of Trump and his team but on the bulk of the GOP Senators who have found themselves trapped by, and in hock to, Trump's control over their voting base. The Democrats knew that removing him politically now was the likely best, and probably only, option but that they had a constitutional duty to impeach. That the GOP would duck it was intended to show their corruption. That it hasn't only goes to confirm to me the sickness within the US system. A sickness which affects the GOP very much more than the Democrats.
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| DanH SW2 24 Nov 20 1.31pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Considering you'd just made a snide remark yourself to matthau I just naturally assumed 'what's good for the goose' and that you were fine with banter. Perhaps the mirrors work kind of strange in your gaff. Oh I’m fine with a retort, just make it a funny one next time.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 24 Nov 20 1.47pm |
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Originally posted by DanH
Oh I’m fine with a retort, just make it a funny one next time. Stirly doesn't do funny. Not the haha type anyway. Plenty of the political type though, which can also raise the odd smile from time to time, along with plenty of grimaces.
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cryrst  The garden of England 24 Nov 20 1.47pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Not invested. It's just plain to see that Trump conceding is the end of the road. He would not concede if he had even the slightest belief that he would be able to successfully challenge the result. It's too damaging for him. Ergo, the chance of 'widespread voting fraud' being either uncovered or proven in courts, let alone leading to any possibility of Biden being unseated is now vanishingly small. Obviously, if this entire situation somehow flips on it's head, then of course, the truth is the truth and you can't argue with facts. But what are you clinging on to here to now think he still has a chance? It's simply delaying tactics and strategic positioning to sow discord and set himself up for a post presidency disruption campaign. Officially it's done. As for what he does next? I can see him becoming the defacto darling of QAnon and any other right wing / conspiracy movement. Perhaps that in itself is the slightly more disturbing outcome of this whole debacle. You accept if it turns out to be true to voting fraud you will go with it, but then post your last paragraph. That says in a way you wont accept it if it is fraud.
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| Stirlingsays 24 Nov 20 2.07pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
On the theoretical basis of there being two irreconcilable political beliefs, you have a case. From a purely practical view you don't. There are people who hold each belief in every state, even if those on the coasts lean one way and those in the south and mid west another. How do you combine the eastern states and California into one country, with another country in between? How will that stop the internal divisions within the states themselves? Mass re-locations of people? As with the end of British rule in India? How will the military be organised and what weaknesses will result? It isn't going to happen. They have to find a way to work together and peacefully reach compromises. Which is what I see coming from Biden, once he assumes office and is allowed to by the rump of the Trump presidency. I hear what you say but in my view it's too polarised. There is a hell of a lot of anger....you read Mainey's post?.....Well, let's just say the anger is very real on both sides. As for how separation eventually happens, that would be worked out.....I see cooperation militarily and in other fields obviously.....However, I also see two administrations because the differences are too great. Fundamental differences on several amendments. I just see it as inevitable. I understand if others disagree. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Nov 2020 2.14pm)
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 24 Nov 20 2.27pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
You accept if it turns out to be true to voting fraud you will go with it, but then post your last paragraph. That says in a way you wont accept it if it is fraud. Nope, it doesn't. It says how I read the situation, right now. If that changes, I'll follow the facts.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| Stirlingsays 24 Nov 20 2.38pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The truth has always mattered. The problem for the past 4 years that on one side of the argument the truth has been regarded as whatever Trump was thinking at that moment. So what is it that you believe the Democrats have been sowing? Because I only see a lot of patience, frustration and disbelief at the behaviour not only of Trump and his team but on the bulk of the GOP Senators who have found themselves trapped by, and in hock to, Trump's control over their voting base. The Democrats knew that removing him politically now was the likely best, and probably only, option but that they had a constitutional duty to impeach. That the GOP would duck it was intended to show their corruption. That it hasn't only goes to confirm to me the sickness within the US system. A sickness which affects the GOP very much more than the Democrats. Your post kind of illustrates the different lenes that exist. Let's not bore anyone reading with old battles about Trump's presidency. If he does stay on though I'd definitely recommend a blood pressure monitor and a few months away from the news..
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croydon proud  Any european country i fancy! 24 Nov 20 2.40pm |
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If trump can overturn this and stays on as president I will cancel my hol membership, as clearly know nothing and shouldn"t be spouting nonsense, just my gut feeling but you never know with" the don".
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| Stirlingsays 24 Nov 20 2.41pm |
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Originally posted by DanH
Oh I’m fine with a retort, just make it a funny one next time. Cheer up, it's nearly Christmas!
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Spiderman Horsham 24 Nov 20 2.48pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Stirly doesn't do funny. Not the haha type anyway. Plenty of the political type though, which can also raise the odd smile from time to time, along with plenty of grimaces. Are you related to Stirlingsays then? Your post could have been addressed to you
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 24 Nov 20 2.57pm |
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Originally posted by croydon proud
If trump can overturn this and stays on as president I will cancel my hol membership, as clearly know nothing and shouldn"t be spouting nonsense, just my gut feeling but you never know with" the don". I think this is the general cut and thrust of it. The possibility of him pulling it off now seems so remote, that personally I don't see the point in including it as a reasonable outcome scenario any more. Previously I would have but ongoing events are making it almost unviable. Hence my confidence in asserting 'It's done' now he's caved on transition. However, is it still possible? Sure. That said, unlike some on here that will disregard the outcome whether it favours Biden or Trump due to their blinkered, partisan, quasi religious positions, it would be pretty stupid to continue to claim Trump had lost if he presents what he is calling 'great detail' in a 'really big lawsuit' and it is proven to be true, on the scale he is insinuating it to be. You would literally be an idiot to argue against that. It would be uncontestable, and he would write rightly get elected as a result. Bit the longer this rumbles on, and the more republicans that start to turn, the closer we get to the call. And to me, it seems like all bluff, no stuff. Which is hardly a new strategy for him now is it. Edited by SW19 CPFC (24 Nov 2020 3.00pm)
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