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Originally posted by jeeagles
If he wasnt aiming for Europe, he could have used them as 8 friendlies to try new things out. If we'd lost, he could have then said we were experimenting and probably held off people calling for his head. Instead he said that he owes it to the (out of form) senior players to give them a place in the team because every place was important. Then bought on a defensive midfielder for a winger with two minutes to go. But he got a point, which haulted his losing streak, then complained that he didn't have Kane so was unlucky again. Question - if you were Steve Parish and Hodgson said to you that he was going to '' experiment '' with the team and treat the last 8 games as friendlies, what would you have said ? Bearing in mind the financial implications of the finishing places ? You also manage to moan about getting a point yesterday against a top 6 club. Did you see who was on their bench compared to ours ? If you were to have made a sub with 2 minutes to go, who would you have brought on then ?
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Originally posted by NEILLO
Question - if you were Steve Parish and Hodgson said to you that he was going to '' experiment '' with the team and treat the last 8 games as friendlies, what would you have said ? Bearing in mind the financial implications of the finishing places ? You also manage to moan about getting a point yesterday against a top 6 club. Did you see who was on their bench compared to ours ? If you were to have made a sub with 2 minutes to go, who would you have brought on then ? Good qustions. I made a post a while ago when it is clear we were safe asking what people wanted to see from the last few games. I think it should have been a discussion between Parish and Roy and we should have had a clear stratergy either way. The options we had were; 1) Stick with our best team, and hope we finish as high up the league as possible. 2) Treat the matches as friendlys, try out some different players, see what we have to build on for next season. We stuck with our best team, lost 7 games and drew one against a Spurs side who weren't pushing for a win. Therefore, the manager got it wrong. In the matches we were losing, we failed to make uses of our substitutions to either chase the game or give the youngesters a run out. Roy's biggest concern seemed to be goal difference. He can always come in after a games with the same cliches about how the thought we were unlucky. So Roy didn't chase the highest possible league finish but still played what he thought was our best team. If we treated the games like friendlies, we could have seen what players might be able to contribute to the side next season, if a player played well, we could save or make millions in the transfer market. B But Roy decided to play our senior players, showing that there is no real competition for first team places. Your second question is pretty loaded and your language is quite devisive, and contains a typical Roy Hodgson appologist excuse. I can tell you that I wouldn't have bought on an experienced defensive midfielder for a winger with two minutes to go. I'd have like to have seen something done earlier, and with more attacking intent. We had Pierreck, Meyer, Kirby, and Gordon on the bench. We could even have bought on Woods and stuck Dann up front. Again, had we lost, we'd finish in exactly the same league position. Contiually giving players 2 mintues on the pitch in just seems like an insult to the players, unless he's trying to kill a game off. A draw with Spurs, on the last day of the season, when they only needed a draw, isn't some great acheivement to celebrate. It can't be used to hide from the fact we lost 7 in a row before then. In Roy's fans minds, it's his Dunkirk. Lombardo stuck a young Clinton Morrison on the pitch for 10 minutes against Sheffield Wednesday on the last day of the season in 1998. He grabbed a tap in and gave the fans something to be hopeful for going into the next season.
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Originally posted by BM
I really hope Roy stays and is given some decent players to work with. It’s been a good season overall and the rigour he brings to the team is important. It might not be the most exciting football but how many non-top six sides stay up AND entertain? He’s an excellent manager and if we replace him I think we are more likely to go down next season. We're more likely to go down sticking with Hodgson. Boring, dull football, same tactics, same players in the team each week. Time for a change. A new manager with fresh ideas.
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Originally posted by Gyro1780
I do get the impression that large swathes of our supporters are thinking along the lines of "Oh, NO, not another season with Hodgson and his boring tactics". I am increasingly hearing "Time for a change".
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Originally posted by BM
I really hope Roy stays and is given some decent players to work with. It’s been a good season overall and the rigour he brings to the team is important. It might not be the most exciting football but how many non-top six sides stay up AND entertain? He’s an excellent manager and if we replace him I think we are more likely to go down next season. We stayed up. Yes that's good. But we have played some of the worst football anyone can remember and ended the season getting 1 point from 24. No so good.
I have now sufficient funds to last me the rest of my life. Provided I don't buy anything. |
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Originally posted by Willo
I do get the impression that large swathes of our supporters are thinking along the lines of "Oh, NO, not another season with Hodgson and his boring tactics". I am increasingly hearing "Time for a change". I,m increasingly looking toward joining all the we used to be someone’s in the Championship and lower , much earlier than we needed to be, if the moaners get their way.
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Originally posted by Eaglehamster
We stayed up. Yes that's good. But we have played some of the worst football anyone can remember and ended the season getting 1 point from 24. No so good. We played almost everyone in top ten in our last run of games with a load of injuries and nothing to play for and no support.
Does anyone really think we can open games up and play exciting football all the time with the squad we have? Wake up.
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
We played almost everyone in top ten in our last run of games with a load of injuries and nothing to play for and no support.
Does anyone really think we can open games up and play exciting football all the time with the squad we have? Wake up. First paragraph is spot on.
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Originally posted by jeeagles
Good qustions. I made a post a while ago when it is clear we were safe asking what people wanted to see from the last few games. I think it should have been a discussion between Parish and Roy and we should have had a clear stratergy either way. The options we had were; 1) Stick with our best team, and hope we finish as high up the league as possible. 2) Treat the matches as friendlys, try out some different players, see what we have to build on for next season. We stuck with our best team, lost 7 games and drew one against a Spurs side who weren't pushing for a win. Therefore, the manager got it wrong. In the matches we were losing, we failed to make uses of our substitutions to either chase the game or give the youngesters a run out. Roy's biggest concern seemed to be goal difference. He can always come in after a games with the same cliches about how the thought we were unlucky. So Roy didn't chase the highest possible league finish but still played what he thought was our best team. If we treated the games like friendlies, we could have seen what players might be able to contribute to the side next season, if a player played well, we could save or make millions in the transfer market. B But Roy decided to play our senior players, showing that there is no real competition for first team places. Your second question is pretty loaded and your language is quite devisive, and contains a typical Roy Hodgson appologist excuse. I can tell you that I wouldn't have bought on an experienced defensive midfielder for a winger with two minutes to go. I'd have like to have seen something done earlier, and with more attacking intent. We had Pierreck, Meyer, Kirby, and Gordon on the bench. We could even have bought on Woods and stuck Dann up front. Again, had we lost, we'd finish in exactly the same league position. Contiually giving players 2 mintues on the pitch in just seems like an insult to the players, unless he's trying to kill a game off. A draw with Spurs, on the last day of the season, when they only needed a draw, isn't some great acheivement to celebrate. It can't be used to hide from the fact we lost 7 in a row before then. In Roy's fans minds, it's his Dunkirk. Lombardo stuck a young Clinton Morrison on the pitch for 10 minutes against Sheffield Wednesday on the last day of the season in 1998. He grabbed a tap in and gave the fans something to be hopeful for going into the next season. Ok, so you didn't answer my first question, merely re stated your options. And how can you say that he didn't chase the highest league position although he continued to select his best team - I don't follow that train of thought. If I was a manager at any level and my team had lost 7 on the bounce, I would most certainly want to do my utmost to protect a point. Bringing on an untried youngster for 2 minutes ? - not the answer. As for your Woods / Dann suggestion, well I think you're in a minority of one if you seriously think that was a viable option.
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
We played almost everyone in top ten in our last run of games with a load of injuries and nothing to play for and no support.
Does anyone really think we can open games up and play exciting football all the time with the squad we have? Wake up. You're not wrong, Hrolf.
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
We played almost everyone in top ten in our last run of games with a load of injuries and nothing to play for and no support.
Does anyone really think we can open games up and play exciting football all the time with the squad we have? Wake up.
The fact that there has been so little investment over the last 3 years is indeed the probable reason I have at no time called for Roy's sacking but surely you'll agree with me that something has to change.
I have now sufficient funds to last me the rest of my life. Provided I don't buy anything. |
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Originally posted by NEILLO
Ok, so you didn't answer my first question, merely re stated your options. And how can you say that he didn't chase the highest league position although he continued to select his best team - I don't follow that train of thought. If I was a manager at any level and my team had lost 7 on the bounce, I would most certainly want to do my utmost to protect a point. Bringing on an untried youngster for 2 minutes ? - not the answer. As for your Woods / Dann suggestion, well I think you're in a minority of one if you seriously think that was a viable option. I said, that you'd pick a statergy and either us youth players, or go for the points. We made a half arsed attempt to go for the points and failed because of our negative tactics. I'd prefer it if we went for a death or glory approach in the final minutes, particularly if we were safe in the knowledge that we couldn't drop a league position. You completely ignored my point about Morrison's debut. Why not give it a go? I'd give them much longer than two minutes. That's pointless unless you are trying to kill off a game. Woods/Dann may not have been the answer (although Dann did come close with the final chance of the game), but we still had Meyer, Pierreck, Kirby, and Gordon. I bet if Roy was in charge in 1998 he'd have played Padavano, although at the time he was busy screwing up Blackburn. A draw yesterday won't make a blind bit of difference to the current slump we are in.
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Originally posted by Eaglehamster
The fact that there has been so little investment over the last 3 years is indeed the probable reason I have at no time called for Roy's sacking but surely you'll agree with me that something has to change.
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Originally posted by doombear
The 12 month business is probably about Roy's age and whether he will feel up to it 12 months hence. I suspect SP will be happy to keep extending for 12 months whilst ever Roy feels he can continue to do the job. In other words, if it looks like we will survive next season and Roy still feels he can do the job, expect another 12 month extension agreed next Spring. So our strategy is to keep an old boy in the job for as long as the old boy feels like he can get out of bed each morning? My God I really hope things aren't as clueless as that. We're a football club not a nursing home.
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Originally posted by Putitout
It's statements like these that don't hold water. Hodgson inherited a decent enough squad:
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Originally posted by jeeagles
I said, that you'd pick a statergy and either us youth players, or go for the points. We made a half arsed attempt to go for the points and failed because of our negative tactics. I'd prefer it if we went for a death or glory approach in the final minutes, particularly if we were safe in the knowledge that we couldn't drop a league position. You completely ignored my point about Morrison's debut. Why not give it a go? I'd give them much longer than two minutes. That's pointless unless you are trying to kill off a game. Woods/Dann may not have been the answer (although Dann did come close with the final chance of the game), but we still had Meyer, Pierreck, Kirby, and Gordon. I bet if Roy was in charge in 1998 he'd have played Padavano, although at the time he was busy screwing up Blackburn. A draw yesterday won't make a blind bit of difference to the current slump we are in. And you are choosing to ignore my first question - how do you think Parish would have reacted if Hodgson had told him he wanted to '' experiment ' in the last 8 games ? You might prefer to go for '' death or glory '' but you aren't a Premier League manager. A draw DOES make a difference. A tiny step perhaps, but one in the right direction. So yes, Hodgson was trying to kill the game off and protect the point. Ask the players if they felt better at getting a point yesterday as the result of their putting a shift in or whether they wished the manager had gambled and they had lost the game. I think I can predict what the answers would be.
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Originally posted by NEILLO
And you are choosing to ignore my first question - how do you think Parish would have reacted if Hodgson had told him he wanted to '' experiment ' in the last 8 games ? You might prefer to go for '' death or glory '' but you aren't a Premier League manager. A draw DOES make a difference. A tiny step perhaps, but one in the right direction. So yes, Hodgson was trying to kill the game off and protect the point. Ask the players if they felt better at getting a point yesterday as the result of their putting a shift in or whether they wished the manager had gambled and they had lost the game. I think I can predict what the answers would be. A lot of people are thinking only in extremes here ie. Tried and tested team vs youth/friendly mentality. To aim to blood young players or evolve the team creatively does not mean to treat it like a friendly. If you dedicated 10% 0f your approach to trying new things then you can evolve a team over time, it shouldn't come down to one match and to think of the Spurs game in isolation is wrong. If you asked the players about which outcome they wanted yesterday then you're right in that we could predict the answer. Apply that question to a whole season's worth of games and I expect you'd get a better picture of a desire amongst the team to develop/evolve/progress by trying new systems/players. Without that you will rot as a team and that's where we are now.
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Originally posted by Frickin Saweet
A lot of people are thinking only in extremes here ie. Tried and tested team vs youth/friendly mentality. To aim to blood young players or evolve the team creatively does not mean to treat it like a friendly. If you dedicated 10% 0f your approach to trying new things then you can evolve a team over time, it shouldn't come down to one match and to think of the Spurs game in isolation is wrong. If you asked the players about which outcome they wanted yesterday then you're right in that we could predict the answer. Apply that question to a whole season's worth of games and I expect you'd get a better picture of a desire amongst the team to develop/evolve/progress by trying new systems/players. Without that you will rot as a team and that's where we are now. After the Bournemouth game it was a totally different picture. 4 wins, 4 clean sheets in a row. I doubt too many players would be thinking new systems etc., while they are banking their win bonuses ! But I agree, it's about evolution. And then we get back into the old argument about the quality of young players...as for tactics, another topic done to death - while they achieve Hodgson's objective then he has no incentive to change.
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Originally posted by NEILLO
And you are choosing to ignore my first question - how do you think Parish would have reacted if Hodgson had told him he wanted to '' experiment ' in the last 8 games ? You might prefer to go for '' death or glory '' but you aren't a Premier League manager. A draw DOES make a difference. A tiny step perhaps, but one in the right direction. So yes, Hodgson was trying to kill the game off and protect the point. Ask the players if they felt better at getting a point yesterday as the result of their putting a shift in or whether they wished the manager had gambled and they had lost the game. I think I can predict what the answers would be. I've answered it several times Neillo. You are just ignoring it. Communication between the Chairman and Manager should be clear, and so should the stratergy. A "tiny" difference is could also be described as insignificant. Which is what it was. It wasn't even in the right direction, it just slowed down the decline Losing wouldn't have made a bit of difference. Drawing will possibly drag out the saga of Roy Hodgson's very slowly killing the club. The players know the only reason we got a draw yesterday was because Spurs let the game fizzle out. Had they needed to win, it would have been a different story. I see you and Roy might both have very risk adverse personalities, at some point you have to take risks. Sport is about taking risks and trying to win. The best time to take risks is when there is nothing to lose, we didn't take this oportunity and we are now worse off because of it. The time to start changing things wasn't after the Bournmouth game, thats a disingenous comment. The time to change them was after the Burnley game when we knew we had a tough run of fixtures.
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