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Roy IN. Stop scapegoating him!


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NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 27 Jul 20 8.43am

Originally posted by jeeagles

If he wasnt aiming for Europe, he could have used them as 8 friendlies to try new things out.

If we'd lost, he could have then said we were experimenting and probably held off people calling for his head.

Instead he said that he owes it to the (out of form) senior players to give them a place in the team because every place was important. Then bought on a defensive midfielder for a winger with two minutes to go. But he got a point, which haulted his losing streak, then complained that he didn't have Kane so was unlucky again.

Question - if you were Steve Parish and Hodgson said to you that he was going to '' experiment '' with the team and treat the last 8 games as friendlies, what would you have said ? Bearing in mind the financial implications of the finishing places ?

You also manage to moan about getting a point yesterday against a top 6 club. Did you see who was on their bench compared to ours ? If you were to have made a sub with 2 minutes to go, who would you have brought on then ?

 


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jeeagles Flag 27 Jul 20 10.23am

Originally posted by NEILLO
Question - if you were Steve Parish and Hodgson said to you that he was going to '' experiment '' with the team and treat the last 8 games as friendlies, what would you have said ? Bearing in mind the financial implications of the finishing places ?

You also manage to moan about getting a point yesterday against a top 6 club. Did you see who was on their bench compared to ours ? If you were to have made a sub with 2 minutes to go, who would you have brought on then ?

Good qustions. I made a post a while ago when it is clear we were safe asking what people wanted to see from the last few games. I think it should have been a discussion between Parish and Roy and we should have had a clear stratergy either way.

The options we had were;

1) Stick with our best team, and hope we finish as high up the league as possible.

2) Treat the matches as friendlys, try out some different players, see what we have to build on for next season.

We stuck with our best team, lost 7 games and drew one against a Spurs side who weren't pushing for a win. Therefore, the manager got it wrong.

In the matches we were losing, we failed to make uses of our substitutions to either chase the game or give the youngesters a run out. Roy's biggest concern seemed to be goal difference. He can always come in after a games with the same cliches about how the thought we were unlucky.

So Roy didn't chase the highest possible league finish but still played what he thought was our best team.

If we treated the games like friendlies, we could have seen what players might be able to contribute to the side next season, if a player played well, we could save or make millions in the transfer market. B

But Roy decided to play our senior players, showing that there is no real competition for first team places.

Your second question is pretty loaded and your language is quite devisive, and contains a typical Roy Hodgson appologist excuse. I can tell you that I wouldn't have bought on an experienced defensive midfielder for a winger with two minutes to go. I'd have like to have seen something done earlier, and with more attacking intent. We had Pierreck, Meyer, Kirby, and Gordon on the bench. We could even have bought on Woods and stuck Dann up front. Again, had we lost, we'd finish in exactly the same league position.

Contiually giving players 2 mintues on the pitch in just seems like an insult to the players, unless he's trying to kill a game off.

A draw with Spurs, on the last day of the season, when they only needed a draw, isn't some great acheivement to celebrate. It can't be used to hide from the fact we lost 7 in a row before then. In Roy's fans minds, it's his Dunkirk.

Lombardo stuck a young Clinton Morrison on the pitch for 10 minutes against Sheffield Wednesday on the last day of the season in 1998. He grabbed a tap in and gave the fans something to be hopeful for going into the next season.

 

Gyro1780 Flag Leatherhead, Surrey 27 Jul 20 10.41am

Originally posted by BM

I really hope Roy stays and is given some decent players to work with. It’s been a good season overall and the rigour he brings to the team is important. It might not be the most exciting football but how many non-top six sides stay up AND entertain? He’s an excellent manager and if we replace him I think we are more likely to go down next season.

We're more likely to go down sticking with Hodgson. Boring, dull football, same tactics, same players in the team each week. Time for a change. A new manager with fresh ideas.

 

Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Jul 20 10.44am

Originally posted by Gyro1780


We're more likely to go down sticking with Hodgson. Boring, dull football, same tactics, same players in the team each week. Time for a change. A new manager with fresh ideas.

I do get the impression that large swathes of our supporters are thinking along the lines of "Oh, NO, not another season with Hodgson and his boring tactics".

I am increasingly hearing "Time for a change".

 

Eaglehamster Flag Storrington 27 Jul 20 10.48am

Originally posted by BM

I really hope Roy stays and is given some decent players to work with. It’s been a good season overall and the rigour he brings to the team is important. It might not be the most exciting football but how many non-top six sides stay up AND entertain? He’s an excellent manager and if we replace him I think we are more likely to go down next season.

We stayed up. Yes that's good. But we have played some of the worst football anyone can remember and ended the season getting 1 point from 24. No so good.

 


I have now sufficient funds to last me the rest of my life. Provided I don't buy anything.

Putitout Flag Oxford 27 Jul 20 10.52am

Originally posted by Willo

I do get the impression that large swathes of our supporters are thinking along the lines of "Oh, NO, not another season with Hodgson and his boring tactics".

I am increasingly hearing "Time for a change".

I,m increasingly looking toward joining all the we used to be someone’s in the Championship and lower , much earlier than we needed to be, if the moaners get their way.

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 27 Jul 20 10.57am

Originally posted by Eaglehamster

We stayed up. Yes that's good. But we have played some of the worst football anyone can remember and ended the season getting 1 point from 24. No so good.

We played almost everyone in top ten in our last run of games with a load of injuries and nothing to play for and no support.
We were actually safe way before the lockdown.


Supporters need a reality check.
We spent next to no money for several seasons and stayed up easily.
How can anyone possibly criticise the manager?

Does anyone really think we can open games up and play exciting football all the time with the squad we have?

Wake up.

 

Spiderman Flag Horsham 27 Jul 20 11.18am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

We played almost everyone in top ten in our last run of games with a load of injuries and nothing to play for and no support.
We were actually safe way before the lockdown.


Supporters need a reality check.
We spent next to no money for several seasons and stayed up easily.
How can anyone possibly criticise the manager?

Does anyone really think we can open games up and play exciting football all the time with the squad we have?

Wake up.

First paragraph is spot on.
My complaint about Roy is his resistance to using subs, we never seem to want to chase the game and his insist on keeping it to 0-0 at half time.
We have spent very little money and it looks like this will continue. Why? To me this is the biggest question as it was our Chairman who stated you cannot stand still and should not be happy with doing so.
The transfer window will be interesting and somewhat informative

 

NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 27 Jul 20 11.31am

Originally posted by jeeagles

Good qustions. I made a post a while ago when it is clear we were safe asking what people wanted to see from the last few games. I think it should have been a discussion between Parish and Roy and we should have had a clear stratergy either way.

The options we had were;

1) Stick with our best team, and hope we finish as high up the league as possible.

2) Treat the matches as friendlys, try out some different players, see what we have to build on for next season.

We stuck with our best team, lost 7 games and drew one against a Spurs side who weren't pushing for a win. Therefore, the manager got it wrong.

In the matches we were losing, we failed to make uses of our substitutions to either chase the game or give the youngesters a run out. Roy's biggest concern seemed to be goal difference. He can always come in after a games with the same cliches about how the thought we were unlucky.

So Roy didn't chase the highest possible league finish but still played what he thought was our best team.

If we treated the games like friendlies, we could have seen what players might be able to contribute to the side next season, if a player played well, we could save or make millions in the transfer market. B

But Roy decided to play our senior players, showing that there is no real competition for first team places.

Your second question is pretty loaded and your language is quite devisive, and contains a typical Roy Hodgson appologist excuse. I can tell you that I wouldn't have bought on an experienced defensive midfielder for a winger with two minutes to go. I'd have like to have seen something done earlier, and with more attacking intent. We had Pierreck, Meyer, Kirby, and Gordon on the bench. We could even have bought on Woods and stuck Dann up front. Again, had we lost, we'd finish in exactly the same league position.

Contiually giving players 2 mintues on the pitch in just seems like an insult to the players, unless he's trying to kill a game off.

A draw with Spurs, on the last day of the season, when they only needed a draw, isn't some great acheivement to celebrate. It can't be used to hide from the fact we lost 7 in a row before then. In Roy's fans minds, it's his Dunkirk.

Lombardo stuck a young Clinton Morrison on the pitch for 10 minutes against Sheffield Wednesday on the last day of the season in 1998. He grabbed a tap in and gave the fans something to be hopeful for going into the next season.

Ok, so you didn't answer my first question, merely re stated your options. And how can you say that he didn't chase the highest league position although he continued to select his best team - I don't follow that train of thought.

If I was a manager at any level and my team had lost 7 on the bounce, I would most certainly want to do my utmost to protect a point. Bringing on an untried youngster for 2 minutes ? - not the answer. As for your Woods / Dann suggestion, well I think you're in a minority of one if you seriously think that was a viable option.

 


Old, Ungifted and White

Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 27 Jul 20 11.32am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

We played almost everyone in top ten in our last run of games with a load of injuries and nothing to play for and no support.
We were actually safe way before the lockdown.


Supporters need a reality check.
We spent next to no money for several seasons and stayed up easily.
How can anyone possibly criticise the manager?

Does anyone really think we can open games up and play exciting football all the time with the squad we have?

Wake up.

You're not wrong, Hrolf.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

Eaglehamster Flag Storrington 27 Jul 20 11.40am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

We played almost everyone in top ten in our last run of games with a load of injuries and nothing to play for and no support.
We were actually safe way before the lockdown.


Supporters need a reality check.
We spent next to no money for several seasons and stayed up easily.
How can anyone possibly criticise the manager?

Does anyone really think we can open games up and play exciting football all the time with the squad we have?

Wake up.


I'm fully awake thanks.
I think you'll find no criticism in my post. I was stating the facts.

The fact that there has been so little investment over the last 3 years is indeed the probable reason
the team is now threadbare.

I have at no time called for Roy's sacking but surely you'll agree with me that something has to change.

 


I have now sufficient funds to last me the rest of my life. Provided I don't buy anything.

jeeagles Flag 27 Jul 20 11.52am

Originally posted by NEILLO

Ok, so you didn't answer my first question, merely re stated your options. And how can you say that he didn't chase the highest league position although he continued to select his best team - I don't follow that train of thought.

If I was a manager at any level and my team had lost 7 on the bounce, I would most certainly want to do my utmost to protect a point. Bringing on an untried youngster for 2 minutes ? - not the answer. As for your Woods / Dann suggestion, well I think you're in a minority of one if you seriously think that was a viable option.

I said, that you'd pick a statergy and either us youth players, or go for the points. We made a half arsed attempt to go for the points and failed because of our negative tactics.

I'd prefer it if we went for a death or glory approach in the final minutes, particularly if we were safe in the knowledge that we couldn't drop a league position.

You completely ignored my point about Morrison's debut. Why not give it a go? I'd give them much longer than two minutes. That's pointless unless you are trying to kill off a game. Woods/Dann may not have been the answer (although Dann did come close with the final chance of the game), but we still had Meyer, Pierreck, Kirby, and Gordon. I bet if Roy was in charge in 1998 he'd have played Padavano, although at the time he was busy screwing up Blackburn.

A draw yesterday won't make a blind bit of difference to the current slump we are in.

 

Putitout Flag Oxford 27 Jul 20 12.02pm

Originally posted by Eaglehamster


I'm fully awake thanks.
I think you'll find no criticism in my post. I was stating the facts.

The fact that there has been so little investment over the last 3 years is indeed the probable reason
the team is now threadbare.

I have at no time called for Roy's sacking but surely you'll agree with me that something has to change.


Something does have to change . Unlike yourself many on here seem to think that getting rid of Hodgson, is that change. But as you point out the problems Palace actually have are so great that only a really experienced knowledgable manager could have kept us in this league.
How anyone can think it’s Hodgsons fault we don’t recruit enough quality players to fill his squad out , is beyond belief.
It must be obvious by now ,that the board can’t offer top draw signings on a regular basis . We are just lucky we have someone willing to work under those conditions, let alone keep us at this level.

 

Frickin Saweet Flag South Cronx 27 Jul 20 12.13pm

Originally posted by doombear

The 12 month business is probably about Roy's age and whether he will feel up to it 12 months hence. I suspect SP will be happy to keep extending for 12 months whilst ever Roy feels he can continue to do the job. In other words, if it looks like we will survive next season and Roy still feels he can do the job, expect another 12 month extension agreed next Spring.

So our strategy is to keep an old boy in the job for as long as the old boy feels like he can get out of bed each morning? My God I really hope things aren't as clueless as that. We're a football club not a nursing home.

 

southnorwoodhill Flag 27 Jul 20 12.15pm

Originally posted by Putitout


Something does have to change . Unlike yourself many on here seem to think that getting rid of Hodgson, is that change. But as you point out the problems Palace actually have are so great that only a really experienced knowledgable manager could have kept us in this league.
How anyone can think it’s Hodgsons fault we don’t recruit enough quality players to fill his squad out , is beyond belief.
It must be obvious by now ,that the board can’t offer top draw signings on a regular basis . We are just lucky we have someone willing to work under those conditions, let alone keep us at this level.

It's statements like these that don't hold water. Hodgson inherited a decent enough squad:
[Link]
which he has slowly turned into a bunch of headless chicken numpties almost afraid to cross the half way line lest they break the shape mantra. I note that he did the same whilst England manager - he had the cream of English players to choose from yet by the end of his reign they looked like they had never seen a football. The fact that Southgate came in with a different vision attests to Hodgson's failures. If Parish can find replacements in a short space of time for the likes of Pulis, Allerdyce and particularly FdB, then I'm sure he can find one for Hodgson.

 

NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 27 Jul 20 12.23pm

Originally posted by jeeagles

I said, that you'd pick a statergy and either us youth players, or go for the points. We made a half arsed attempt to go for the points and failed because of our negative tactics.

I'd prefer it if we went for a death or glory approach in the final minutes, particularly if we were safe in the knowledge that we couldn't drop a league position.

You completely ignored my point about Morrison's debut. Why not give it a go? I'd give them much longer than two minutes. That's pointless unless you are trying to kill off a game. Woods/Dann may not have been the answer (although Dann did come close with the final chance of the game), but we still had Meyer, Pierreck, Kirby, and Gordon. I bet if Roy was in charge in 1998 he'd have played Padavano, although at the time he was busy screwing up Blackburn.

A draw yesterday won't make a blind bit of difference to the current slump we are in.

And you are choosing to ignore my first question - how do you think Parish would have reacted if Hodgson had told him he wanted to '' experiment ' in the last 8 games ?

You might prefer to go for '' death or glory '' but you aren't a Premier League manager. A draw DOES make a difference. A tiny step perhaps, but one in the right direction. So yes, Hodgson was trying to kill the game off and protect the point. Ask the players if they felt better at getting a point yesterday as the result of their putting a shift in or whether they wished the manager had gambled and they had lost the game. I think I can predict what the answers would be.

 


Old, Ungifted and White

Frickin Saweet Flag South Cronx 27 Jul 20 12.47pm

Originally posted by NEILLO

And you are choosing to ignore my first question - how do you think Parish would have reacted if Hodgson had told him he wanted to '' experiment ' in the last 8 games ?

You might prefer to go for '' death or glory '' but you aren't a Premier League manager. A draw DOES make a difference. A tiny step perhaps, but one in the right direction. So yes, Hodgson was trying to kill the game off and protect the point. Ask the players if they felt better at getting a point yesterday as the result of their putting a shift in or whether they wished the manager had gambled and they had lost the game. I think I can predict what the answers would be.

A lot of people are thinking only in extremes here ie. Tried and tested team vs youth/friendly mentality. To aim to blood young players or evolve the team creatively does not mean to treat it like a friendly. If you dedicated 10% 0f your approach to trying new things then you can evolve a team over time, it shouldn't come down to one match and to think of the Spurs game in isolation is wrong. If you asked the players about which outcome they wanted yesterday then you're right in that we could predict the answer. Apply that question to a whole season's worth of games and I expect you'd get a better picture of a desire amongst the team to develop/evolve/progress by trying new systems/players. Without that you will rot as a team and that's where we are now.

 

NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 27 Jul 20 12.58pm

Originally posted by Frickin Saweet

A lot of people are thinking only in extremes here ie. Tried and tested team vs youth/friendly mentality. To aim to blood young players or evolve the team creatively does not mean to treat it like a friendly. If you dedicated 10% 0f your approach to trying new things then you can evolve a team over time, it shouldn't come down to one match and to think of the Spurs game in isolation is wrong. If you asked the players about which outcome they wanted yesterday then you're right in that we could predict the answer. Apply that question to a whole season's worth of games and I expect you'd get a better picture of a desire amongst the team to develop/evolve/progress by trying new systems/players. Without that you will rot as a team and that's where we are now.

After the Bournemouth game it was a totally different picture. 4 wins, 4 clean sheets in a row. I doubt too many players would be thinking new systems etc., while they are banking their win bonuses !

But I agree, it's about evolution. And then we get back into the old argument about the quality of young players...as for tactics, another topic done to death - while they achieve Hodgson's objective then he has no incentive to change.

 


Old, Ungifted and White

Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Jul 20 12.59pm

On HOL, and privately, I have always recognised Hodgson's achievements in keeping us in the PL for 3 seasons with a very limited spend.
This is the sole objective of the club and he has met that objective so "Happy Days" as far as the Board are concerned.
The football was uninspiring but in the final analysis the end has justified the means.

 

jeeagles Flag 27 Jul 20 1.12pm

Originally posted by NEILLO

And you are choosing to ignore my first question - how do you think Parish would have reacted if Hodgson had told him he wanted to '' experiment ' in the last 8 games ?

You might prefer to go for '' death or glory '' but you aren't a Premier League manager. A draw DOES make a difference. A tiny step perhaps, but one in the right direction. So yes, Hodgson was trying to kill the game off and protect the point. Ask the players if they felt better at getting a point yesterday as the result of their putting a shift in or whether they wished the manager had gambled and they had lost the game. I think I can predict what the answers would be.

I've answered it several times Neillo. You are just ignoring it.

Communication between the Chairman and Manager should be clear, and so should the stratergy.

A "tiny" difference is could also be described as insignificant. Which is what it was. It wasn't even in the right direction, it just slowed down the decline Losing wouldn't have made a bit of difference. Drawing will possibly drag out the saga of Roy Hodgson's very slowly killing the club.

The players know the only reason we got a draw yesterday was because Spurs let the game fizzle out. Had they needed to win, it would have been a different story.

I see you and Roy might both have very risk adverse personalities, at some point you have to take risks. Sport is about taking risks and trying to win. The best time to take risks is when there is nothing to lose, we didn't take this oportunity and we are now worse off because of it.

The time to start changing things wasn't after the Bournmouth game, thats a disingenous comment. The time to change them was after the Burnley game when we knew we had a tough run of fixtures.

 

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