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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 15 Aug 21 11.26pm
Originally posted by doombear They were almost certainly not deemed fit enough to start the game, only to come off the bench. Neither has had a sufficient pre-season and both were carrying minor knocks at the beginning of the month. So no, Vieira wasn't clueless at all. He simply played the limited cards he was dealt for this match, which let's face it wasn't much, Basically the team Roy had that got thrashed by Chelsea 8-1 on aggregate last season plus Guehi. Edited by doombear (15 Aug 2021 9.53pm) We have lost from last season, Cahill 20 starts, Dann 15, PVA 20, Townsend 25. The only new signing who started was Guehi who hadn't played in the top flight beforehand. Andersen of course was introduced from the bench. Gallagher unable to play against his parent club and Olise injured.Eze of course unavailable until next year. Vieira has said himself that the squad is light in numbers and more signings are required. Edited by Willo (15 Aug 2021 11.27pm)

Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 15 Aug 21 11.26pm

Originally posted by doombear

They were almost certainly not deemed fit enough to start the game, only to come off the bench. Neither has had a sufficient pre-season and both were carrying minor knocks at the beginning of the month. So no, Vieira wasn't clueless at all. He simply played the limited cards he was dealt for this match, which let's face it wasn't much, Basically the team Roy had that got thrashed by Chelsea 8-1 on aggregate last season plus Guehi.

Edited by doombear (15 Aug 2021 9.53pm)

We have lost from last season, Cahill 20 starts, Dann 15, PVA 20, Townsend 25.
The only new signing who started was Guehi who hadn't played in the top flight beforehand.
Andersen of course was introduced from the bench.
Gallagher unable to play against his parent club and Olise injured.Eze of course unavailable until next year.
Vieira has said himself that the squad is light in numbers and more signings are required.

Edited by Willo (15 Aug 2021 11.27pm)

Qwijibo Bournemouth 15 Aug 21 11.52pm
I have no idea whether Vieira will be a success or not, but this game was irrelevant either way. The Chelsea performance back in April was the best we faced last season. From the first minute they swarmed us with energy and intensity that our ageing squad couldn't get close to. Just over a month later they won the European Cup. Vieira has had one game to improve that gulf in standards. So much has been said of out squad overhaul, but none of those players played. So what's to have changed from last season? Despite their European game midweek, they were better prepared than us, because they've been preparing for nearly twenty years. Their squad is incredible, the depth is as good as anyone in Europe. They're a club run incredibly well. Their stuttering last season makes it easy to under-estimate just how good they are. Their infrastructure is as good as Manchester City, and like City, it's taken them years and years of investment and very good management across the whole club to get there. When you take all of that into consideration, without even looking at the line-ups, they should be beating us 3-0. And how do we compare? We sign players that can't get near their first team and yet the general consensus is that Loftus-Cheek, Batshuayi, Rak-Sakyi, Guéhi are/were signings that make us better. We have so much work to do, this game came way too soon for us. A win would have been incredible, but a defeat doesn't change anything. I'm thankful the fixture is done and we move on. It could have been worse. Edited by Qwijibo (16 Aug 2021 12.09am)

Qwijibo

Bournemouth 15 Aug 21 11.52pm

I have no idea whether Vieira will be a success or not, but this game was irrelevant either way.

The Chelsea performance back in April was the best we faced last season. From the first minute they swarmed us with energy and intensity that our ageing squad couldn't get close to. Just over a month later they won the European Cup. Vieira has had one game to improve that gulf in standards.

So much has been said of out squad overhaul, but none of those players played. So what's to have changed from last season?

Despite their European game midweek, they were better prepared than us, because they've been preparing for nearly twenty years. Their squad is incredible, the depth is as good as anyone in Europe.

They're a club run incredibly well. Their stuttering last season makes it easy to under-estimate just how good they are. Their infrastructure is as good as Manchester City, and like City, it's taken them years and years of investment and very good management across the whole club to get there. When you take all of that into consideration, without even looking at the line-ups, they should be beating us 3-0.

And how do we compare? We sign players that can't get near their first team and yet the general consensus is that Loftus-Cheek, Batshuayi, Rak-Sakyi, Guéhi are/were signings that make us better.

We have so much work to do, this game came way too soon for us. A win would have been incredible, but a defeat doesn't change anything.

I'm thankful the fixture is done and we move on. It could have been worse.

Edited by Qwijibo (16 Aug 2021 12.09am)

Qwijibo Bournemouth 16 Aug 21 12.07am
not sure how I posted that twice Edited by Qwijibo (16 Aug 2021 12.08am)

Qwijibo

Bournemouth 16 Aug 21 12.07am

not sure how I posted that twice

Edited by Qwijibo (16 Aug 2021 12.08am)

beak croydon 16 Aug 21 9.46am
Originally posted by Willo We have lost from last season, Cahill 20 starts, Dann 15, PVA 20, Townsend 25. The only new signing who started was Guehi who hadn't played in the top flight beforehand. Andersen of course was introduced from the bench. Gallagher unable to play against his parent club and Olise injured.Eze of course unavailable until next year. Vieira has said himself that the squad is light in numbers and more signings are required. Edited by Willo (15 Aug 2021 11.27pm) So why are we light in numbers? We have money to spend.A manager should always take any blame,he trains the players,he is in charge of fitness.

beak

croydon 16 Aug 21 9.46am

Originally posted by Willo

We have lost from last season, Cahill 20 starts, Dann 15, PVA 20, Townsend 25.
The only new signing who started was Guehi who hadn't played in the top flight beforehand.
Andersen of course was introduced from the bench.
Gallagher unable to play against his parent club and Olise injured.Eze of course unavailable until next year.
Vieira has said himself that the squad is light in numbers and more signings are required.

Edited by Willo (15 Aug 2021 11.27pm)

So why are we light in numbers? We have money to spend.A manager should always take any blame,he trains the players,he is in charge of fitness.

MrRobbo Chaldon 16 Aug 21 9.51am
I think we need to cut PV a bit of slack, it was his first game, and against the European champions so no real shame in a defeat. A few lessons that I think were pretty clear: Against the top teams we need to set up differently. Wilf doesn’t get enough of the ball upfront, and a midfield of 2 gets overrun. I don’t want us to play for a stalemate, but against the best I’d like to see Wilf on the wing, and Ayew (Eze when fit) sat in behind Benteke to help the midfield boys out). I wouldn’t even be adverse to 3 CB’s to give us a more solid base. Ayew is a good player, but he needs to play centrally. He offers very little on the wing. Wilf might get slightly more goals upfront, but he’s just not a striker. He is at his best when he has space to run into and can take people on. Playing with back to goal doesn’t really give him the chance to do that very often. He is vitally important to help with the transition. Mateta isn’t really showing us much at the min, not an easy game for him, but still isn’t making any real meaningful contributions. Jairo still hasn’t convinced me that he has the energy to be a CM in the prem. He always seams to be slightly off the pace. Needs runners around him to help him out.

MrRobbo

Chaldon 16 Aug 21 9.51am

I think we need to cut PV a bit of slack, it was his first game, and against the European champions so no real shame in a defeat. A few lessons that I think were pretty clear:

Against the top teams we need to set up differently. Wilf doesn’t get enough of the ball upfront, and a midfield of 2 gets overrun. I don’t want us to play for a stalemate, but against the best I’d like to see Wilf on the wing, and Ayew (Eze when fit) sat in behind Benteke to help the midfield boys out). I wouldn’t even be adverse to 3 CB’s to give us a more solid base.

Ayew is a good player, but he needs to play centrally. He offers very little on the wing.

Wilf might get slightly more goals upfront, but he’s just not a striker. He is at his best when he has space to run into and can take people on. Playing with back to goal doesn’t really give him the chance to do that very often. He is vitally important to help with the transition.

Mateta isn’t really showing us much at the min, not an easy game for him, but still isn’t making any real meaningful contributions.

Jairo still hasn’t convinced me that he has the energy to be a CM in the prem. He always seams to be slightly off the pace. Needs runners around him to help him out.

horrorshow In the lap of the gods 16 Aug 21 9.55am
Wow. Should Leeds sack Bielsa after losing away to a top for team too? Or how about Norwich getting rid of Fark because they lost 3-0 too…at home. As it has been said we lost 4-0 at the Bridge last season and have not beaten them in 7 attempts now…losing every one. Perspective is required here on the reality of playing the European Champions on a high. The Queen supports Crystal Palace. Perhaps she'll buy the club then legitimately all the money in England shall be ours. Plus all the swans.

horrorshow

In the lap of the gods 16 Aug 21 9.55am

Wow. Should Leeds sack Bielsa after losing away to a top for team too? Or how about Norwich getting rid of Fark because they lost 3-0 too…at home.

As it has been said we lost 4-0 at the Bridge last season and have not beaten them in 7 attempts now…losing every one. Perspective is required here on the reality of playing the European Champions on a high.

The Queen supports Crystal Palace. Perhaps she'll buy the club then legitimately all the money in England shall be ours. Plus all the swans.

Rachid Rachid Rachid 16 Aug 21 9.59am
Originally posted by MrRobbo I think we need to cut PV a bit of slack, it was his first game, and against the European champions so no real shame in a defeat. A few lessons that I think were pretty clear: Against the top teams we need to set up differently. Wilf doesn’t get enough of the ball upfront, and a midfield of 2 gets overrun. I don’t want us to play for a stalemate, but against the best I’d like to see Wilf on the wing, and Ayew (Eze when fit) sat in behind Benteke to help the midfield boys out). I wouldn’t even be adverse to 3 CB’s to give us a more solid base. Ayew is a good player, but he needs to play centrally. He offers very little on the wing. Wilf might get slightly more goals upfront, but he’s just not a striker. He is at his best when he has space to run into and can take people on. Playing with back to goal doesn’t really give him the chance to do that very often. He is vitally important to help with the transition. Mateta isn’t really showing us much at the min, not an easy game for him, but still isn’t making any real meaningful contributions. Jairo still hasn’t convinced me that he has the energy to be a CM in the prem. He always seams to be slightly off the pace. Needs runners around him to help him out. Riedewald has been gassed up by a section of the fans. He doesn’t have a position. Not a centre back not a centre mid and was only ok as stand in left back. Squad player at best.

Rachid Rachid Rachid

16 Aug 21 9.59am

Originally posted by MrRobbo

I think we need to cut PV a bit of slack, it was his first game, and against the European champions so no real shame in a defeat. A few lessons that I think were pretty clear:

Ayew is a good player, but he needs to play centrally. He offers very little on the wing.

Mateta isn’t really showing us much at the min, not an easy game for him, but still isn’t making any real meaningful contributions.

Jairo still hasn’t convinced me that he has the energy to be a CM in the prem. He always seams to be slightly off the pace. Needs runners around him to help him out.

Riedewald has been gassed up by a section of the fans. He doesn’t have a position. Not a centre back not a centre mid and was only ok as stand in left back. Squad player at best.

Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 16 Aug 21 10.18am
Originally posted by MrRobbo I think we need to cut PV a bit of slack, it was his first game, and against the European champions so no real shame in a defeat. A few lessons that I think were pretty clear: Against the top teams we need to set up differently. Wilf doesn’t get enough of the ball upfront, and a midfield of 2 gets overrun. I don’t want us to play for a stalemate, but against the best I’d like to see Wilf on the wing, and Ayew (Eze when fit) sat in behind Benteke to help the midfield boys out). I wouldn’t even be adverse to 3 CB’s to give us a more solid base. Ayew is a good player, but he needs to play centrally. He offers very little on the wing. Wilf might get slightly more goals upfront, but he’s just not a striker. He is at his best when he has space to run into and can take people on. Playing with back to goal doesn’t really give him the chance to do that very often. He is vitally important to help with the transition. Mateta isn’t really showing us much at the min, not an easy game for him, but still isn’t making any real meaningful contributions. Jairo still hasn’t convinced me that he has the energy to be a CM in the prem. He always seams to be slightly off the pace. Needs runners around him to help him out. Probably about 3 years ago I heard that Hodgson and Lewington didn't think he reacted and got back quick enough for the PL. De Boer signed him to play in a back three or in midfield.

Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 16 Aug 21 10.18am

Originally posted by MrRobbo

I think we need to cut PV a bit of slack, it was his first game, and against the European champions so no real shame in a defeat. A few lessons that I think were pretty clear:

Ayew is a good player, but he needs to play centrally. He offers very little on the wing.

Mateta isn’t really showing us much at the min, not an easy game for him, but still isn’t making any real meaningful contributions.

Jairo still hasn’t convinced me that he has the energy to be a CM in the prem. He always seams to be slightly off the pace. Needs runners around him to help him out.

Probably about 3 years ago I heard that Hodgson and Lewington didn't think he reacted and got back quick enough for the PL.

De Boer signed him to play in a back three or in midfield.

MrRobbo Chaldon 16 Aug 21 10.29am
Hopefully having seen it first hand Pat has learnt that lesson now.

MrRobbo

Chaldon 16 Aug 21 10.29am

Hopefully having seen it first hand Pat has learnt that lesson now.

Croydon-Trucker 16 Aug 21 10.37am
Originally posted by Goal Machine If anyone was expecting anything other than a comfortable Chelsea win, they need their head examined. They won the Champions League about 10 weeks ago! Olise & Eze injured, Gallagher not available, not sure about Andersen. It was pretty much Roy’s team with Gueye swapped in for Cahill. We’re going through a major overhaul and we’ll take a couple of months to get going. A point against Brentford would be a decent result. This season is about survival. The jury is out on PV simply because he’s an unknown quantity, but at least give the bloke a chance. De Boer was trying to fit round pegs in square holes, I don’t feel that with PV. I agree with you there mate , they are the champs of europe ffs , did anyone expect us to win . i was hoping for a draw at the very most but that was from the heart and not the head . At least we put up a fight ! and didnt just go there to defend . Worst ref in the league also . On a brighter note we are on the same points as Man City .

Croydon-Trucker

16 Aug 21 10.37am

Originally posted by Goal Machine

If anyone was expecting anything other than a comfortable Chelsea win, they need their head examined. They won the Champions League about 10 weeks ago!

Olise & Eze injured, Gallagher not available, not sure about Andersen. It was pretty much Roy’s team with Gueye swapped in for Cahill. We’re going through a major overhaul and we’ll take a couple of months to get going. A point against Brentford would be a decent result. This season is about survival. The jury is out on PV simply because he’s an unknown quantity, but at least give the bloke a chance.

De Boer was trying to fit round pegs in square holes, I don’t feel that with PV.

I agree with you there mate , they are the champs of europe ffs , did anyone expect us to win . i was hoping for a draw at the very most but that was from the heart and not the head . At least we put up a fight ! and didnt just go there to defend . Worst ref in the league also . On a brighter note we are on the same points as Man City .

palace99 New Mills 16 Aug 21 10.47am
Originally posted by Rachid Rachid Rachid Riedewald has been gassed up by a section of the fans. He doesn’t have a position. Not a centre back not a centre mid and was only ok as stand in left back. Squad player at best. agree but who else could he have picked? Luka has barely featured in pre season so appears not to be fit and Koyaute was playing in defence and his limited passing may not suit PV as a midfield option. Even with Gallagher in the squad next week our midfield is still looking quite light IMHO. Still not sure what role suits Schlupp - can be ok on left side of a 442, as a 433 looks lost. It appears our main centre mid is still almost 34 year old Jimmy Mac

palace99

New Mills 16 Aug 21 10.47am

Originally posted by Rachid Rachid Rachid

Riedewald has been gassed up by a section of the fans. He doesn’t have a position. Not a centre back not a centre mid and was only ok as stand in left back. Squad player at best.

agree but who else could he have picked? Luka has barely featured in pre season so appears not to be fit and Koyaute was playing in defence and his limited passing may not suit PV as a midfield option.

Even with Gallagher in the squad next week our midfield is still looking quite light IMHO.

Still not sure what role suits Schlupp - can be ok on left side of a 442, as a 433 looks lost.

It appears our main centre mid is still almost 34 year old Jimmy Mac

Palace Old Geezer Midhurst 16 Aug 21 10.56am
Originally posted by Croydon-Trucker I agree with you there mate , they are the champs of europe ffs , did anyone expect us to win . i was hoping for a draw at the very most but that was from the heart and not the head . At least we put up a fight ! and didnt just go there to defend . Worst ref in the league also . On a brighter note we are on the same points as Man City . Yes, and imagine how their supporters are feeling right now. At least most of us expected we'd lose the first game. Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

Palace Old Geezer

Midhurst 16 Aug 21 10.56am

Originally posted by Croydon-Trucker

Yes, and imagine how their supporters are feeling right now. At least most of us expected we'd lose the first game.

Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 16 Aug 21 11.08am
Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer Yes, and imagine how their supporters are feeling right now. At least most of us expected we'd lose the first game. Last season, Man C lost their 2nd PL game 5-2 home to Leicester,they only won 3 of their first 8 PL games and they went on to win the title. I doubt their supporters are in a state of panic !!

Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 16 Aug 21 11.08am

Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer

Yes, and imagine how their supporters are feeling right now. At least most of us expected we'd lose the first game.

Last season, Man C lost their 2nd PL game 5-2 home to Leicester,they only won 3 of their first 8 PL games and they went on to win the title.
I doubt their supporters are in a state of panic !!

kennybrowns leftfoot Reigate 16 Aug 21 11.45am
Originally posted by beak So why are we light in numbers? We have money to spend.A manager should always take any blame,he trains the players,he is in charge of fitness. Because we have a Chairman and a board that allowed a squad to be run into the ground and allow 11 players to be out of contract which is unheard of in the top flight... And you blame Viera?... Wow. Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!

kennybrowns leftfoot

Reigate 16 Aug 21 11.45am

Originally posted by beak

So why are we light in numbers? We have money to spend.A manager should always take any blame,he trains the players,he is in charge of fitness.

Because we have a Chairman and a board that allowed a squad to be run into the ground and allow 11 players to be out of contract which is unheard of in the top flight...

And you blame Viera?... Wow.

Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!

george1212 london 16 Aug 21 11.46am
Originally posted by MrRobbo Jairo still hasn’t convinced me that he has the energy to be a CM in the prem. He always seams to be slightly off the pace. Needs runners around him to help him out. Definitely agree on Jairo. Watching him in the Watford friendly in central midfield I wasn't convinced. Hard worker by all means but the jury is out on him. I feel he lacks that bit of quality ideally needed in CM.

george1212

london 16 Aug 21 11.46am

Originally posted by MrRobbo

Jairo still hasn’t convinced me that he has the energy to be a CM in the prem. He always seams to be slightly off the pace. Needs runners around him to help him out.

Definitely agree on Jairo. Watching him in the Watford friendly in central midfield I wasn't convinced. Hard worker by all means but the jury is out on him. I feel he lacks that bit of quality ideally needed in CM.

doombear Too far from Selhurst Park 16 Aug 21 11.47am
Originally posted by beak So why are we light in numbers? We have money to spend.A manager should always take any blame,he trains the players,he is in charge of fitness. In a word "rubbish". The manager can only work with what he's given and if what he's given isn't good enough, there's not a great deal he can do. As for money, Chelsea spent more on one player last week than we have spent on our squad in the last 4 years! Chelsea are simply on a different level to the likes of us.

doombear

Too far from Selhurst Park 16 Aug 21 11.47am

Originally posted by beak

So why are we light in numbers? We have money to spend.A manager should always take any blame,he trains the players,he is in charge of fitness.

In a word "rubbish".
The manager can only work with what he's given and if what he's given isn't good enough, there's not a great deal he can do.

As for money, Chelsea spent more on one player last week than we have spent on our squad in the last 4 years!

Chelsea are simply on a different level to the likes of us.

Midlands Eagle 16 Aug 21 11.48am
Originally posted by MrRobbo Hopefully having seen it first hand Pat has learnt that lesson now. Who is Pat?

Midlands Eagle

16 Aug 21 11.48am

Originally posted by MrRobbo

Hopefully having seen it first hand Pat has learnt that lesson now.

Who is Pat?

george1212 london 16 Aug 21 11.50am
It's early days but I can somehow see a repeat of De Boer here. It almost seems bound to go wrong but we just don't do well with these kind of managers at the helm. A win against Brentford would take a ton of pressure off. A loss and then that pressure double again and you just really don't want this to go to the De Boer way with a number of back to back losses straight away, that would be a disaster. But that all said, it is too early to say even though it was a tough opening day fixture for us. If we get a win against Brentford then happy days - there's our start to the season and we go to West Ham with a bit of fire in our bellies. Edited by george1212 (16 Aug 2021 11.59am)

george1212

london 16 Aug 21 11.50am

It's early days but I can somehow see a repeat of De Boer here. It almost seems bound to go wrong but we just don't do well with these kind of managers at the helm.

A win against Brentford would take a ton of pressure off. A loss and then that pressure double again and you just really don't want this to go to the De Boer way with a number of back to back losses straight away, that would be a disaster.

But that all said, it is too early to say even though it was a tough opening day fixture for us. If we get a win against Brentford then happy days - there's our start to the season and we go to West Ham with a bit of fire in our bellies.

Edited by george1212 (16 Aug 2021 11.59am)

doombear Too far from Selhurst Park 16 Aug 21 12.19pm
We lose a game to the Champion club of Europe and people are saying if we lose to Brentford next week we have a De Boer type crisis. This is nothing like De Boer. Vieira is prepared to compromise his preferred style for the sake of pragmatism. He even used Hodgson's 442 instead of his preferred 433 on Saturday in an attempt to keep Chelsea at bay. He did it with the what is likely to be the weakest team the club will put out this season due to injuries and ineligibilty. it will take time for the new players to settle and the squad to become comfortable with the system. Fortunately, we have some of our toughest matches in the first ten outings and whilst that may result in us being in the bottom 3 come the end of October, we should be better placed after the Citeh game to pick up the points need to move out of danger. After the Citeh game on the last weekend of October we have the following run of fixtures up to Christmas: - Wolves H - Burnley A - Villa H - Leeds A - Man U A - Everton H - Southampton H - Watford A If we're still in the bottom 3 after those games then we may need to start to worry a little. So let's just relax, get down to SP on Saturday and roar the lads (and the manager) on!

doombear

Too far from Selhurst Park 16 Aug 21 12.19pm

We lose a game to the Champion club of Europe and people are saying if we lose to Brentford next week we have a De Boer type crisis.

This is nothing like De Boer. Vieira is prepared to compromise his preferred style for the sake of pragmatism. He even used Hodgson's 442 instead of his preferred 433 on Saturday in an attempt to keep Chelsea at bay. He did it with the what is likely to be the weakest team the club will put out this season due to injuries and ineligibilty.

it will take time for the new players to settle and the squad to become comfortable with the system. Fortunately, we have some of our toughest matches in the first ten outings and whilst that may result in us being in the bottom 3 come the end of October, we should be better placed after the Citeh game to pick up the points need to move out of danger.

After the Citeh game on the last weekend of October we have the following run of fixtures up to Christmas:
- Wolves H
- Burnley A
- Villa H
- Leeds A
- Man U A
- Everton H
- Southampton H
- Watford A

If we're still in the bottom 3 after those games then we may need to start to worry a little.

So let's just relax, get down to SP on Saturday and roar the lads (and the manager) on!

doombear Too far from Selhurst Park 16 Aug 21 12.20pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle Who is Pat? and what lesson has he learnt?

doombear

Too far from Selhurst Park 16 Aug 21 12.20pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Who is Pat?

and what lesson has he learnt?

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