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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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  Hrolf The Ganger  13 Feb 17 1.33pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
From Michael Rosen. Very salient points imo. Meanwhile, there are the 'material' conditions. That's to say, the organisation and cycle of work, production, distribution, and the making of profits. Quite clearly, immigration has been essential for this in a variety of ways. So there is a gap between what government and press have been saying and what has actually been happening. That's why Cameron talking about 'bringing down the numbers' was always hooey. He would have been told over and over again by employers' organisations (natural supporters of the Tories) that their businesses were only sustainable on the basis that young workers were coming in able and willing to do those jobs. So now having 'won' the ideological battle: hooray we can 'control our borders' (euphemism for 'keep foreigners out' This is an extraordinary moment. We'll have to see how serious it is, but a Tory government is going to find it extremely difficult to turn round to an electorate primed up to think that 'bringing down immigration' (or even telling immigrants to 'go home' Michael Rosen is Jewish and has a bee in his bonnet about anti immigration advocacy. Hardly a surprise is it. They will all be whining just the same when none of their kids can afford a house or get medical treatment.
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they're losing the material one ie businesses are short of labour. | jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Feb 17 4.23pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Michael Rosen is Jewish and has a bee in his bonnet about anti immigration advocacy. Hardly a surprise is it. They will all be whining just the same when none of their kids can afford a house or get medical treatment. Immigrants aren't really the problem though are they, immigration control and its exploitation to maximise profit, are the problem. I don't think the UK can cope without immigration, what it doesn't need is the idea of immigration being utilised to purely fulfil a corporate agenda.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Feb 17 4.24pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Michael Rosen is Jewish and has a bee in his bonnet about anti immigration advocacy. Hardly a surprise is it. They will all be whining just the same when none of their kids can afford a house or get medical treatment. He's still got some valid points in there though, which aren't dismissed on the basis of him being Jewish, or a migrant (or son of a migrant).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Part Time James 13 Feb 17 4.26pm |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
Bloggers are benders. There is a certain audience that enjoys a blog: The c**t that wrote it. And that's not personal or specific to anyone here. Blogs are massively over indulgent and I'm yet to read one without shouting "c**t" before the end.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Feb 17 4.49pm |
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Originally posted by Part Time James
There is a certain audience that enjoys a blog: The c**t that wrote it. And that's not personal or specific to anyone here. Blogs are massively over indulgent and I'm yet to read one without shouting "c**t" before the end. Whilst there are, and have been, some excellent blogs, in my experience, most of them are only enjoyed by the writer, other bloggers and very lazy journalists. Its a bit like being a 'youtube' personality (One down from being recognised for your work in p***.. In fact, I'd argue that the difference between being a blogger and a writer, is someone pays you for the quality of what you produce at a financial risk, rather than the money you generate through adverts (typically spawned by other mindless narcissists who read what you wrote on the basis that you'll read their equally unimpressive self indulgent nonsense). Bloggers, are an internet creation, culled from those who lack the imagination to write crossover fan fiction. In fact its the non-fiction equivalent of slash-fiction.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Part Time James 13 Feb 17 4.57pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Whilst there are, and have been, some excellent blogs, in my experience, most of them are only enjoyed by the writer, other bloggers and very lazy journalists. Its a bit like being a 'youtube' personality (One down from being recognised for your work in p***.. In fact, I'd argue that the difference between being a blogger and a writer, is someone pays you for the quality of what you produce at a financial risk, rather than the money you generate through adverts (typically spawned by other mindless narcissists who read what you wrote on the basis that you'll read their equally unimpressive self indulgent nonsense). Bloggers, are an internet creation, culled from those who lack the imagination to write crossover fan fiction. In fact its the non-fiction equivalent of slash-fiction. We have several senior people in the company I work for that send out "blogs" now. They always start off with such terrific insights along the lines of "Well it's been a mixed weekend for me as my 9 year old Jocasta has just learnt to use the toilet but my husband came back from a grouse hunting party empty handed so we had to purchase a goose from Waitrose for dinner". I was briefly interested in one once when the senior person in question started with "It was a joyful weekend in our household as our favourite football team, Crystal Palace, finally got a win under their belt..." (yeah, it was a while ago). But then she started talking corporate nonsense and I 'filed' the email.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 13 Feb 17 5.03pm |
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Originally posted by Part Time James
We have several senior people in the company I work for that send out "blogs" now. They always start off with such terrific insights along the lines of "Well it's been a mixed weekend for me as my 9 year old Jocasta has just learnt to use the toilet but my husband came back from a grouse hunting party empty handed so we had to purchase a goose from Waitrose for dinner". I was briefly interested in one once when the senior person in question started with "It was a joyful weekend in our household as our favourite football team, Crystal Palace, finally got a win under their belt..." (yeah, it was a while ago). But then she started talking corporate nonsense and I 'filed' the email. Who is it - Jo Brand or Susanna Reid?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Feb 17 5.23pm |
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Originally posted by Part Time James
We have several senior people in the company I work for that send out "blogs" now. They always start off with such terrific insights along the lines of "Well it's been a mixed weekend for me as my 9 year old Jocasta has just learnt to use the toilet but my husband came back from a grouse hunting party empty handed so we had to purchase a goose from Waitrose for dinner". I was briefly interested in one once when the senior person in question started with "It was a joyful weekend in our household as our favourite football team, Crystal Palace, finally got a win under their belt..." (yeah, it was a while ago). But then she started talking corporate nonsense and I 'filed' the email. I used to have a blog, which was basically a series of rants, such as arguments about why disabled women are the sexiest, observations by a one legged Mexican hooker and similarly stupid and offensive material largely around sex and violence, called Joey Deacon was My Brother. But I am also, a c**t.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 13 Feb 17 5.50pm |
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I note that no one has argued against what Rosen wrote.
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 Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 13 Feb 17 5.53pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
I note that no one has argued against what Rosen wrote. I'd never argue against something I've not read.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 13 Feb 17 6.00pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Immigrants aren't really the problem though are they, immigration control and its exploitation to maximise profit, are the problem. I don't think the UK can cope without immigration, what it doesn't need is the idea of immigration being utilised to purely fulfil a corporate agenda. You are essentially right. The UK needs a degree of immigration but not at the level we now have and not a level that our government has little control over. We can argue about the undesirable cultural influences that come with some migrants and the increased population pressures but the corporate agenda argument stands up on it's own.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 13 Feb 17 6.11pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
He's still got some valid points in there though, which aren't dismissed on the basis of him being Jewish, or a migrant (or son of a migrant). I'm not dismissing his argument on the basis of him being Jewish. I'm suggesting that it is not surprising that he holds these views. I do agree with the inference that the Tories are talking tough on immigration despite many of their members being pro EU and having no effect on numbers arriving. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (13 Feb 2017 6.12pm)
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| Part Time James 13 Feb 17 6.44pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I used to have a blog, which was basically a series of rants, such as arguments about why disabled women are the sexiest, observations by a one legged Mexican hooker and similarly stupid and offensive material largely around sex and violence, called Joey Deacon was My Brother. But I am also, a c**t. That actually sounds readable...
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| Part Time James 13 Feb 17 6.51pm |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
Were it not for blogs, Gusset would be robbed of any supporting 'evidence' for some of his more fanciful and crypto-Stalinist notions and impractical, idealistic nonsense.
The trouble is, people write blogs these days as though writing their opinions down on a website turns them into fact. And anybody can do it. I'm not going to personally attack Nick, but surely he must see why people are sometimes a little sceptical about blogs being used as evidence, especially as he took so much joy in the reliability of the information in the Daily Mail being called into question. I should add, I take little to no stock in either source. If it were as simple as that, i.e.: putting your story on the internet making it come true, I'd not be typing this, I'd be typing a blog about how I am a fantastic lover and I'm having roast beef for dinner. I dread the day well paid lawyers stand up in court and say "the defendant cannot be guilty m'lud, here is a blog his brother wrote about how he is innocent". And Nick, I apologise. You are entitled to your opinions and I fully accept that some of the content of the blog links you post may well be right, but you must be able to see why people have become so disdainful about their validity?
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| Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Stoke sub normal 13 Feb 17 11.16pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
I note that no one has argued against what Rosen wrote. This bit Nick... "He would have been told over and over again by employers' organisations (natural supporters of the Tories) that their businesses were only sustainable on the basis that young workers were coming in able and willing to do those jobs." You don't see the capitalist stance there? Might it be to exploit them by paying the lowest possible wage, thereby increasing the profits of shareholders and directors, and closing out the indigenous workers? I thought you were a socialist....
Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 14 Feb 17 12.40am |
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Originally posted by Part Time James
The trouble is, people write blogs these days as though writing their opinions down on a website turns them into fact. And anybody can do it. I'm not going to personally attack Nick, but surely he must see why people are sometimes a little sceptical about blogs being used as evidence, especially as he took so much joy in the reliability of the information in the Daily Mail being called into question. I should add, I take little to no stock in either source. If it were as simple as that, i.e.: putting your story on the internet making it come true, I'd not be typing this, I'd be typing a blog about how I am a fantastic lover and I'm having roast beef for dinner. I dread the day well paid lawyers stand up in court and say "the defendant cannot be guilty m'lud, here is a blog his brother wrote about how he is innocent". And Nick, I apologise. You are entitled to your opinions and I fully accept that some of the content of the blog links you post may well be right, but you must be able to see why people have become so disdainful about their validity? I've never said the blogs were fact, although some do cross reference and evidence to back up the claims.
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| Part Time James 14 Feb 17 9.50am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
I've never said the blogs were fact, although some do cross reference and evidence to back up the claims. Yeah fair enough. Not on the attack. Part of the problem is that when you cross reference anything on the internet there'll be corroborating articles and contradictory ones. It does make me dubious about starting from a blog source as a basis though, or even considering any to corroborate or contradict any source that has been selected to form the basis. I guess what I'm saying is "don't believe anything" (I don't really believe that).
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