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2022 Conservative Leadership Election.


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EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 07 Jun 22 3.32pm

Originally posted by orpingtoneagle

To go back on topic, I feel this last few days is an absolute farce.

Boris was never going to lose a vote and is unlikely to stand down.

Like him or loathe him there are huge swathes of society who may not be your average Tory voter who see in their eyes a man who can do no wrong.

He could be filmed jumping naked around the cabinet table and sniffing coke off Priti Patel's naked breasts (and don't thank me for that image as it stays with you...) and people will just say ' Oh that's just Boris, look at what he has done for us all,' and he would not stand down.

Right now he has the reputation of being a winner and until the Tories I'm marginal seats feel their own position is under threat they will not rock the boat too much.

We have had a challenge he is now immune for a while and will stick around.

I cannot see an effective opposition to threaten that and could even see in a couple of years a coalition with Boris at the heart of it as whatever your views people like him.

I think that's quite an outdated view of Boris... the veneer has fallen.

Latest polling had 42% of Tory members agreeing that Conservative MPs should vote to remove him and 68% of the population think he's doing 'badly' as Prime Minister. Only 26% think he's doing 'well'.

He's on borrowed time already and will soon be nothing more than "the worst PM we've ever had" in the history books.

 

Stirlingsays Flag 07 Jun 22 3.34pm

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Oh OK, so my comment was aimed at 'groups' as a generalisation, not at a particular group of side of the political spectrum etc. etc. To reiterate it is more a philosophical stance not a particular shot at a specific group, if that makes sense?

I myself am very adverse to committing absolutely to any political, moral or otherwise stance without complete and concrete evidence, '1+1=2', and I do often ponder and quite frankly dislike the mentality of those that do. I then just went off on a raging tangent about examples where this has proved detrimental and destructive in more recent human history.

It was in light of those opposing Brexit, who like it or not can now be readily identified as anti-democratic, whichever way they try and spin it.

Apologies for any misunderstandings I might have had.

I think I better understand you here. You have a distain for idealogs, I get that....I think in many senses it's a good instinct.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

orpingtoneagle Flag Orpington 07 Jun 22 3.37pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I'm not a fan of Johnson myself but the issue you or anyone else have who opposes him....and as shown that's plenty of Tories as well....is that he's likeable.

So you're kind of stuck with the same issue the Tories had when Blair was around.....these leaders are kind of normie catnip and that's just how it is.

That said, the economy will always play a big factor in how any election goes.....So we could end up with woke Labour just by proxy of there not being anyone else to vote for.

Even though Labour would have gone just as hard on all the same economic decisions that led here.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Jun 2022 3.31pm)

I deliberately tried to not profess a political viewpoint in my post as it was meant to be a comment on the man not the party, and indeed I was making that very point, whatever he seems to do a large section of the public like him and no other party right now has that (apart from maybe Nichola Sturgeon in Scotland.)

But time will tell,

 

orpingtoneagle Flag Orpington 07 Jun 22 3.41pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I think that's quite an outdated view of Boris... the veneer has fallen.

Latest polling had 42% of Tory members agreeing that Conservative MPs should vote to remove him and 68% of the population think he's doing 'badly' as Prime Minister. Only 26% think he's doing 'well'.

He's on borrowed time already and will soon be nothing more than "the worst PM we've ever had" in the history books.

I was not thinking of Tory party members as they are often not the key to electoral success (aside from being the foot soldiers to mobilise the vote.) I am thinking of the man in the street who seem to find him honest and appealing.

 

Stirlingsays Flag 07 Jun 22 3.41pm

Originally posted by cryrst

I read what the poster wrote and it was more literal than cryptic. I reckon imo it basically reads as an ie that if gender neutral want one toilet for all then they get one and it’s happened even though a tiny % are in this group. Like teaching nippers about sex at aged 5 and 6 because a small minority think it’s correct, it’s all about the loudest alongside our ‘leaders’ being actually affected by what the minority think. I mean ffs labour can’t even identify what a real woman is because it might get them bad press. Just my innocent take tbh.

I think I homed in a little on Nicholas's post when he was making a far more generalised point. I hadn't read what was before and that's always a fair point....one I've made myself.

I'd agree with you that specific positions on actual issues are far more concrete and obviously mate you know where I stand on the ones you raise.

But I probably shouldn't have jumped in when I hadn't been part of the back and forth.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Jun 2022 3.44pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays Flag 07 Jun 22 3.44pm

Originally posted by orpingtoneagle

I deliberately tried to not profess a political viewpoint in my post as it was meant to be a comment on the man not the party, and indeed I was making that very point, whatever he seems to do a large section of the public like him and no other party right now has that (apart from maybe Nichola Sturgeon in Scotland.)

But time will tell,

Fair enough and good points.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 07 Jun 22 3.45pm

Originally posted by orpingtoneagle

I was not thinking of Tory party members as they are often not the key to electoral success (aside from being the foot soldiers to mobilise the vote.) I am thinking of the man in the street who seem to find him honest and appealing.

I think that is hugely out-of-date.

Anyone describing him as 'honest' is just objectively wrong at this point.

 

Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 07 Jun 22 3.46pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Apologies for any misunderstandings I might have had.

I think I better understand you here. You have a distain for idealogs, I get that....I think in many senses it's a good instinct.

Ah nice, you had me worried there Stirling!

I'll try to provide more clarity about future posts and their context in future!

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

cryrst Flag The garden of England 07 Jun 22 3.57pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I think that is hugely out-of-date.

Anyone describing him as 'honest' is just objectively wrong at this point.

Yup a lie never left any other PMs lips !

 

BlueJay Flag UK 07 Jun 22 3.58pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

If you read BlueJay's post he seems to think that if I recognise that autism and other mental health issues are a 'drain on society' that this means that I have no compassion for those conditions or don't agree with supporting them.

---


However, just to be clear to those who read BlueJay's comments and take them as an honest reflection of my views I don't view all gays as 'degenerates' and 'faggots' so his contention is once again inaccurate.

That issue deserves a far larger post that I've been lazy on writing but I will definitely post because this charge has been made several times now.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Jun 2022 3.20pm)

You mentioned no other mental health issues, it was a pitiful and disgusting take that specifically deemed aspergers sufferers as a social burden and types who will fill up our prisons. Now you switch to using these same people as a shield. Coward. Previously those coping with this were 'poor or incapable parents offloading their responsibility for rearing poorly disciplined and rude children on a label'. As inhumane on this topic as any other minority related one until it favours you not to be.

As for gay people, thinking that somehow my comments on your conduct as wrong because 'oh i didn't mean all of them' is ludicrous. I'm sure that really helps your family. You have also used the term 'faggot' directed towards those you have on multiple occasions infered are gay. If you want your conduct to be at the same level as twitter types targetting footballers with racist insults, then you do that. That's where you sit. That's your level.

I actually defended you on here due to some run ins with others, but when despite stating repeatedly that I voted for Brexit and want strict immigration, you accused me of wanting some kind of failed, lawless future for this country (with the only possible reason for that my own stated mixed race relationship and views that all British born should be treated equally and fairly) the realities of your politics truly hit home. You seem to have gone to unfortunate places politically, and its warped you to the point where mundane views from decent hard working people are a problem for you, while those lurching to the extremes are defended to the hilt. That's for you. In the same way that I've bizarrely come to defend your family against you, I will always defend my own family and friends too thanks, black or white, colour or creed. Leave the house more, interact, and you might eventually find your way back to something resembling decency, rather than your current cartoonishish shut-in outlook on life.

Edited by BlueJay (07 Jun 2022 4.11pm)

 

Stirlingsays Flag 07 Jun 22 4.15pm

Apparently I'm a coward too.

My face is on these boards, his isn't.

I live in Wisbech, where does he live?

As usual he talks tosh.

All my opinions are known to my family, some they agree with and some they don't. They do not view me as he does and considering what he calls me they would be happy to tell him where to get off.

All he ever has are empathy arguments. It's feels instead of reals. I don't view that as enough, however the conclusions he draws from what I say are his, not mine.

I call out his sense of hypocritical moralism because that's what I think it is. He ignores those that suffer for his own hidden progressive politics out of his sense of...what I believe is a thinly disguised moralistic narcissism.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Jun 2022 4.17pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

orpingtoneagle Flag Orpington 07 Jun 22 4.17pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I think that is hugely out-of-date.

Anyone describing him as 'honest' is just objectively wrong at this point.

That is not the point I am making. Whatever the man does and however right or wrong you or others think it is, there are a lot of people who still see him as a good leader who can do no wrong, seemingly whatever the media or opposition chuck at him.


 

BlueJay Flag UK 07 Jun 22 4.25pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I live in Wisbech

That's nice for you.

As for your crap conduct, it's all there to see. I certainly don't put it past you to be too far gone to realise that or to manage to excuse the inexcusable. That is likely why you've found yourself where you are in the first place in terms of where your morality and politics sit. Behave as you do, and you'll be called out for it.

Edited by BlueJay (07 Jun 2022 4.29pm)

 

EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 07 Jun 22 4.26pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Yup a lie never left any other PMs lips !

How many other PMs have been sacked for fabricating quotes? Or how many have refused to acknowledge how many children they have?

 

Stirlingsays Flag 07 Jun 22 4.31pm

The liar who says he won't post at me, even expresses relief on it..posts at me...shows the difference between words and reality.

Personally I think his neo and social liberal arguments and positions are destructive and I can prove it statistically....on the breakdown on societal norms and rates to homicides. That's all been done in the past but those discussions showed that he only has empathy arguments....and after that just name calling, projections and exaggerations.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Jun 2022 4.31pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

BlueJay Flag UK 07 Jun 22 4.48pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays
..shows the difference between words and reality.

Any pitiful way to excuse. Yes of course it means that.. in your head. Making factual statements about your conduct does not make a liar out of me or anyone. A fool out of you though.

Quote
Personally I think his neo and social liberal arguments and positions are destructive and I can prove it statistically....on the breakdown on societal norms and rates to homicides. That's all been done in the past but those discussions showed that he only has empathy arguments....and after that just name calling, projections and exaggerations.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Jun 2022 4.31pm)

If you're not keen on societal empathy then get a job and stop relying on it on function, shut-in.

Oh and what position would that be? Do you mean my oft repeated stances on here of voting for Brexit, favouring a significant clampdown down on immigration, being adament that we should act as not to be seen as a 'go to' destination for those coming across the channel - but of also wanting to treat Brits fairly regardless of their skin colour and of being in a mixed race relationship? That's what it means in your fringe led mind to favour 'breakdown on societal norms and rates to homicides' now is it? Racially, you are mentally gone. Get back to your dissident right video playlist comfort blanket. Who needs real people after all, or to treat them in any particular way. Just click play.


Edited by BlueJay (07 Jun 2022 5.07pm)

 

becky Flag over the moon 07 Jun 22 4.51pm

There are too many posts appearing that have nothing to do with the topic but are comment on other posters.

Remeber the rules:

DEBATE THE TOPIC, NOT THE POSTER.

Thank you!

 


A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

BlueJay Flag UK 07 Jun 22 4.57pm

Originally posted by becky

There are too many posts appearing that have nothing to do with the topic but are comment on other posters.

Remeber the rules:

DEBATE THE TOPIC, NOT THE POSTER.

Thank you!

The written word already speaks volumes so I shouldn't have responded to the potshot. As you say this isn't the place. So apologies for sidetracking. I know your job can be a thankless task, so am sorry for adding to that.

Edited by BlueJay (07 Jun 2022 4.59pm)

 

cryrst Flag The garden of England 07 Jun 22 5.13pm

Originally posted by becky

There are too many posts appearing that have nothing to do with the topic but are comment on other posters.

Remeber the rules:

DEBATE THE TOPIC, NOT THE POSTER.

Thank you!

Is that like mickey droy
TAKE THE MAN , NOT THE BALL
sorry

 

croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 07 Jun 22 5.18pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Her comments yesterday were some of the most ridiculous I have ever heard from an MP and, hopefully, will see her consigned, in the fullness of time, to a dark corner of the back benches.

 

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