BBC (again)

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BBC (again)

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Stirlingsays 16 Jan 22 11.07pm
Twenty years ago there was a proposal within the BBC to ensure that it employed fifty fifty on politics. At the time I viewed the rejection of that proposal as self destructive and ultimately I think that is going to be borne out. The path could have been so easily avoided.....If Liz Truss is being honest then the BBC better hope to God that Labour win the next election. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Jan 2022 11.09pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

16 Jan 22 11.07pm

Twenty years ago there was a proposal within the BBC to ensure that it employed fifty fifty on politics.

At the time I viewed the rejection of that proposal as self destructive and ultimately I think that is going to be borne out.

The path could have been so easily avoided.....If Liz Truss is being honest then the BBC better hope to God that Labour win the next election.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Jan 2022 11.09pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Jan 22 11.28pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle And in the next incarnation there will be a subscription fee. How does that affect their independence? That's yet to be decided. Just because a floundering government tries to divert attention via a populist headline is no guarantee anything will actually change. They are unlikely to be in power when the time comes. If it ever did go onto a subscription basis it would ruin, and possibly destroy the BBC. The BBC is not Netflix, Amazon or Sky. It's a very special organisation which needs to be honoured and nurtured. It's not just there to entertain. It isn't influenced by government, media moguls with agendas or business interests. I know people here don't like it's perceived politics, but the truth is that the BBC is bound by its charter to be independent and objective. That demands it challenges political policy which inevitably means the government comes in for more scrutiny and criticism than the opposition, who themselves may be making similar statements. It's a long time since we had a Labour government but they, and their supporters, have always been just as incensed by the BBC, when they were, as Tory supporters are now. The difference today is the internet, which was nothing like as actively used when Labour was last in power. We are just more aware of it now. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 16 Jan 22 11.28pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

And in the next incarnation there will be a subscription fee. How does that affect their independence?

That's yet to be decided. Just because a floundering government tries to divert attention via a populist headline is no guarantee anything will actually change. They are unlikely to be in power when the time comes.

If it ever did go onto a subscription basis it would ruin, and possibly destroy the BBC. The BBC is not Netflix, Amazon or Sky. It's a very special organisation which needs to be honoured and nurtured. It's not just there to entertain. It isn't influenced by government, media moguls with agendas or business interests.

I know people here don't like it's perceived politics, but the truth is that the BBC is bound by its charter to be independent and objective. That demands it challenges political policy which inevitably means the government comes in for more scrutiny and criticism than the opposition, who themselves may be making similar statements. It's a long time since we had a Labour government but they, and their supporters, have always been just as incensed by the BBC, when they were, as Tory supporters are now.

The difference today is the internet, which was nothing like as actively used when Labour was last in power. We are just more aware of it now.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Teddy Eagle 16 Jan 22 11.42pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle That's yet to be decided. Just because a floundering government tries to divert attention via a populist headline is no guarantee anything will actually change. They are unlikely to be in power when the time comes. If it ever did go onto a subscription basis it would ruin, and possibly destroy the BBC. The BBC is not Netflix, Amazon or Sky. It's a very special organisation which needs to be honoured and nurtured. It's not just there to entertain. It isn't influenced by government, media moguls with agendas or business interests. I know people here don't like it's perceived politics, but the truth is that the BBC is bound by its charter to be independent and objective. That demands it challenges political policy which inevitably means the government comes in for more scrutiny and criticism than the opposition, who themselves may be making similar statements. It's a long time since we had a Labour government but they, and their supporters, have always been just as incensed by the BBC, when they were, as Tory supporters are now. The difference today is the internet, which was nothing like as actively used when Labour was last in power. We are just more aware of it now. Doesn’t explain why their independence would be compromised.

Teddy Eagle

16 Jan 22 11.42pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The difference today is the internet, which was nothing like as actively used when Labour was last in power. We are just more aware of it now.

Doesn’t explain why their independence would be compromised.

Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 17 Jan 22 12.36am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I presume you are watching these channels in the USA and not the UK. The licence fee applies only in the UK. How it is presented in other countries is another matter entirely, but as the world's window on us, keeping it free makes perfect sense to me. Making the BBC a subscription service would have very significant, and almost certainly negative, implications. The BBC is different and it needs to stay different. It does important things that others don't. We don't want to see the BBC dumbing down any further than it's budget cuts have already forced it to do. Actually although available for consumption I rarely peruse & when I have I always find it's 'The same old same old ' as they are fond of saying over here. Very much a jobs for the boys &(girls) type culture with mainly the same bunch of presenters & newscasters they've had for the last 15/20 years so the Beeb is hardly nurturing new talent. From what I've read online & heard of first hand is that a lot of the cough Comedy output is the usual plethora of Middle class Liberal angst directed usually at seems at the people they purport to represent mainly the British working class, while at the same time banishing to the archives stuff like Porridge, OFAH, The Two Ronnies & Little Britain. For the record I have property in London so I pay the TV licence there. Pro USA & Israel

Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 17 Jan 22 12.36am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I presume you are watching these channels in the USA and not the UK. The licence fee applies only in the UK. How it is presented in other countries is another matter entirely, but as the world's window on us, keeping it free makes perfect sense to me.

Making the BBC a subscription service would have very significant, and almost certainly negative, implications. The BBC is different and it needs to stay different. It does important things that others don't. We don't want to see the BBC dumbing down any further than it's budget cuts have already forced it to do.

Actually although available for consumption I rarely peruse & when I have I always find it's 'The same old same old ' as they are fond of saying over here.
Very much a jobs for the boys &(girls) type culture with mainly the same bunch of presenters & newscasters they've had for the last 15/20 years so the Beeb is hardly nurturing new talent.
From what I've read online & heard of first hand is that a lot of the **cough** Comedy output is the usual plethora of Middle class Liberal angst directed usually at seems at the people they purport to represent mainly the British working class, while at the same time banishing to the archives stuff like Porridge, OFAH, The Two Ronnies & Little Britain.
For the record I have property in London so I pay the TV licence there.

Pro USA & Israel

Stirlingsays 17 Jan 22 1.01am
The plan to freeze BBC funding and turn it over to subscription in 2027 is apparently all part of 'operation red meat'. It's quite an apt name really as it just shows what we know which is that the Tory leadership are well aware of what its grass roots want...and indeed what many of its MPs want....but what they have been denying them for decades. Other points in 'red meat' are a plan to send the military to curb the migrant crossing (don't see that one working out well personally) and a plan to cancel more Covid restrictions. It's quite cynical really....Johnson and co are only looking at this because they are desperate to retain power and know that only support from the MPs and grass roots will allow that. So they are deciding to throw the meat to their hungry lions when in truth we know they far prefer the soy and will probably go back to it once convenient. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Jan 2022 6.25am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

17 Jan 22 1.01am

The plan to freeze BBC funding and turn it over to subscription in 2027 is apparently all part of 'operation red meat'.

It's quite an apt name really as it just shows what we know which is that the Tory leadership are well aware of what its grass roots want...and indeed what many of its MPs want....but what they have been denying them for decades.

Other points in 'red meat' are a plan to send the military to curb the migrant crossing (don't see that one working out well personally) and a plan to cancel more Covid restrictions.

It's quite cynical really....Johnson and co are only looking at this because they are desperate to retain power and know that only support from the MPs and grass roots will allow that.

So they are deciding to throw the meat to their hungry lions when in truth we know they far prefer the soy and will probably go back to it once convenient.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Jan 2022 6.25am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

The Dolphin 17 Jan 22 7.59am
Labour have put out a statement this morning criticizing the Government for their stance on the BBC and the fact that the initial freezing of the fee will mean £2b cuts - seems a lot to me - maybe I heard the figure wrong?? In any event Labour will be worried because its favourite publicity vehicle will be forced to look after itself and stop being left wing liberal whilst funded by the general public!

The Dolphin

17 Jan 22 7.59am

Labour have put out a statement this morning criticizing the Government for their stance on the BBC and the fact that the initial freezing of the fee will mean £2b cuts - seems a lot to me - maybe I heard the figure wrong??
In any event Labour will be worried because its favourite publicity vehicle will be forced to look after itself and stop being left wing liberal whilst funded by the general public!

Badger11 Beckenham 17 Jan 22 8.06am
Originally posted by cryrst No one thinks the bbc doesn't make some good programmes or offer a service. The point is the somewhat biased reporting which has bought 'karma' to their door. Every dog has its day as the saying goes. I do. Whilst the biased issue annoys me that is not the main issue for me. I genuinely don't like the non news content on the BBC which is why I stopped watching it. I would also add I almost never watch ITV and only watch movies on C4. The difference is that the other terrestrial channels which I think are just as woeful as the BBC don't force me to pay so I don't care about them. The BBC faces the same issues as the other terrestrial channels in that people are switching off and going to streaming so this issue is not unique to the beeb the licence tax is unique. Edited by Badger11 (17 Jan 2022 8.06am) One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 17 Jan 22 8.06am

Originally posted by cryrst

No one thinks the bbc doesn't make some good programmes or offer a service. The point is the somewhat biased reporting which has bought 'karma' to their door. Every dog has its day as the saying goes.

I do.

Whilst the biased issue annoys me that is not the main issue for me. I genuinely don't like the non news content on the BBC which is why I stopped watching it. I would also add I almost never watch ITV and only watch movies on C4.

The difference is that the other terrestrial channels which I think are just as woeful as the BBC don't force me to pay so I don't care about them.

The BBC faces the same issues as the other terrestrial channels in that people are switching off and going to streaming so this issue is not unique to the beeb the licence tax is unique.

Edited by Badger11 (17 Jan 2022 8.06am)

One more point

Badger11 Beckenham 17 Jan 22 8.10am
Originally posted by The Dolphin Labour have put out a statement this morning criticizing the Government for their stance on the BBC and the fact that the initial freezing of the fee will mean £2b cuts - seems a lot to me - maybe I heard the figure wrong?? In any event Labour will be worried because its favourite publicity vehicle will be forced to look after itself and stop being left wing liberal whilst funded by the general public! The 2bn is an estimate of loss of revenue over 6 years and presumably includes an estimate of what inflation will be over that period. It's a guess and may be wildly wrong I think it more accurate to simply say the fee will be frozen for 2 years. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 17 Jan 22 8.10am

Originally posted by The Dolphin

The 2bn is an estimate of loss of revenue over 6 years and presumably includes an estimate of what inflation will be over that period.

It's a guess and may be wildly wrong I think it more accurate to simply say the fee will be frozen for 2 years.

One more point

Badger11 Beckenham 17 Jan 22 8.20am
In for a penny. The Tories have been upset with the BBC since the nineties according to David Mellor who at that time defended the licence fee to his colleagues (and has now changed his mind). The Tories know that scrapping the fee will bring the full weight of the BBC / Guardian and other sympathetic media against them looking to highlight every Tory misdemeanour. However since 2016 the BBC has been doing this rightly or wrongly Brexit / Immigration / Pro Corbyn etc. so if you are going to be damned you may as well get something out of it. Politically I see no downside in the government taking on the BBC. Yes they will get flak and no doubt the beeb will continue to drag up every dirty little Tory secret whilst ignoring Labour's ones but they are doing that now anyway. As for the voters I think most people either want the licence fee scrapped or at best our ambivalent. I don't see this as a big vote loser for the Tories. As for the save our BBC campaign well no one is saying that the BBC should be scrapped just the licence fee. It is going to be difficult for them to persuade people that the BBC is so beloved and popular that you must continue to fund it by compulsion. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 17 Jan 22 8.20am

In for a penny.

The Tories have been upset with the BBC since the nineties according to David Mellor who at that time defended the licence fee to his colleagues (and has now changed his mind).

The Tories know that scrapping the fee will bring the full weight of the BBC / Guardian and other sympathetic media against them looking to highlight every Tory misdemeanour. However since 2016 the BBC has been doing this rightly or wrongly Brexit / Immigration / Pro Corbyn etc. so if you are going to be damned you may as well get something out of it.

Politically I see no downside in the government taking on the BBC. Yes they will get flak and no doubt the beeb will continue to drag up every dirty little Tory secret whilst ignoring Labour's ones but they are doing that now anyway.

As for the voters I think most people either want the licence fee scrapped or at best our ambivalent. I don't see this as a big vote loser for the Tories.

As for the save our BBC campaign well no one is saying that the BBC should be scrapped just the licence fee. It is going to be difficult for them to persuade people that the BBC is so beloved and popular that you must continue to fund it by compulsion.

One more point

Badger11 Beckenham 17 Jan 22 8.22am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The plan to freeze BBC funding and turn it over to subscription in 2027 is apparently all part of 'operation red meat'. It's quite an apt name really as it just shows what we know which is that the Tory leadership are well aware of what its grass roots want...and indeed what many of its MPs want....but what they have been denying them for decades. Other points in 'red meat' are a plan to send the military to curb the migrant crossing (don't see that one working out well personally) and a plan to cancel more Covid restrictions. It's quite cynical really....Johnson and co are only looking at this because they are desperate to retain power and know that only support from the MPs and grass roots will allow that. So they are deciding to throw the meat to their hungry lions when in truth we know they far prefer the soy and will probably go back to it once convenient. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Jan 2022 6.25am) Like you i am cynical that the government will actually do anything about these crossing. I believe the navy will call it Operation Taxi service (it will work like an Uber) One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 17 Jan 22 8.22am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The plan to freeze BBC funding and turn it over to subscription in 2027 is apparently all part of 'operation red meat'.

Other points in 'red meat' are a plan to send the military to curb the migrant crossing (don't see that one working out well personally) and a plan to cancel more Covid restrictions.

It's quite cynical really....Johnson and co are only looking at this because they are desperate to retain power and know that only support from the MPs and grass roots will allow that.

So they are deciding to throw the meat to their hungry lions when in truth we know they far prefer the soy and will probably go back to it once convenient.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Jan 2022 6.25am)

Like you i am cynical that the government will actually do anything about these crossing. I believe the navy will call it Operation Taxi service (it will work like an Uber)

One more point

Spiderman Horsham 17 Jan 22 8.26am
Good post. How many voters will object to saving money? Surprised Labour voted against a money saving initiative for the general public!

Spiderman

Horsham 17 Jan 22 8.26am

Good post. How many voters will object to saving money? Surprised Labour voted against a money saving initiative for the general public!

Spiderman Horsham 17 Jan 22 8.28am
Originally posted by Badger11 Like you i am cynical that the government will actually do anything about these crossing. I believe the navy will call it Operation Taxi service (it will work like an Uber) And our own taxi service CP will be head of the queue

Spiderman

Horsham 17 Jan 22 8.28am

Originally posted by Badger11

Like you i am cynical that the government will actually do anything about these crossing. I believe the navy will call it Operation Taxi service (it will work like an Uber)

And our own taxi service CP will be head of the queue

Matov 17 Jan 22 8.59am
Originally posted by Spiderman Good post. How many voters will object to saving money? Surprised Labour voted against a money saving initiative for the general public! As others have said, its pure distraction at the moment but come the 2024 election, an absolute way of putting clear water between themselves and Labour. Want to carry on paying the licence fee, then vote Labour. And if not... Personally I thought they would offer a referendum on it by way of mirroring Brexit but this probably works a lot better. And Labour are hemmed in by their membership who LOVE the licence fee. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

17 Jan 22 8.59am

Originally posted by Spiderman

Good post. How many voters will object to saving money? Surprised Labour voted against a money saving initiative for the general public!

As others have said, its pure distraction at the moment but come the 2024 election, an absolute way of putting clear water between themselves and Labour.

Want to carry on paying the licence fee, then vote Labour. And if not...

Personally I thought they would offer a referendum on it by way of mirroring Brexit but this probably works a lot better. And Labour are hemmed in by their membership who LOVE the licence fee.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Badger11 Beckenham 17 Jan 22 9.08am
Originally posted by steeleye20 She will be long gone by 2027 and hopefully the tories too. Can't see elderly tory voters liking this one bit either. I've been thinking about this the most loyal viewers of the BBC are the elderly and whilst they got their free licence I would agree with you they would come out fighting for Auntie. However now that they have to pay for it I am not sure they will be as passionate the BBC isn't being scrapped. I said at the time the BBC refused to fund the over 75 licence it was a mistake as they were neglecting their most loyal fan base. this may now come back to bite them on the arse. Edited by Badger11 (17 Jan 2022 9.09am) One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 17 Jan 22 9.08am

Originally posted by steeleye20

She will be long gone by 2027 and hopefully the tories too.

Can't see elderly tory voters liking this one bit either.

I've been thinking about this the most loyal viewers of the BBC are the elderly and whilst they got their free licence I would agree with you they would come out fighting for Auntie.

However now that they have to pay for it I am not sure they will be as passionate the BBC isn't being scrapped. I said at the time the BBC refused to fund the over 75 licence it was a mistake as they were neglecting their most loyal fan base. this may now come back to bite them on the arse.

Edited by Badger11 (17 Jan 2022 9.09am)

One more point

Badger11 Beckenham 17 Jan 22 9.13am
Originally posted by Matov As others have said, its pure distraction at the moment but come the 2024 election, an absolute way of putting clear water between themselves and Labour. Want to carry on paying the licence fee, then vote Labour. And if not... Personally I thought they would offer a referendum on it by way of mirroring Brexit but this probably works a lot better. And Labour are hemmed in by their membership who LOVE the licence fee. Not often I disagree with you Matov I think for the chattering classes it will be a big election issue but they vote Labour anyway. I really don't believe it will be a major part of people's voting reasons at the next election. I can see people wanting to punish the Tories for COVID and sleaze so this maybe the cheery on top but I don't believe it will be a major policial issue even though the beeb and their friends will try to make it so. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 17 Jan 22 9.13am

Originally posted by Matov

As others have said, its pure distraction at the moment but come the 2024 election, an absolute way of putting clear water between themselves and Labour.

Want to carry on paying the licence fee, then vote Labour. And if not...

Personally I thought they would offer a referendum on it by way of mirroring Brexit but this probably works a lot better. And Labour are hemmed in by their membership who LOVE the licence fee.

Not often I disagree with you Matov I think for the chattering classes it will be a big election issue but they vote Labour anyway. I really don't believe it will be a major part of people's voting reasons at the next election.

I can see people wanting to punish the Tories for COVID and sleaze so this maybe the cheery on top but I don't believe it will be a major policial issue even though the beeb and their friends will try to make it so.

One more point

Slimey Toad Karsiyaka, North Cyprus 17 Jan 22 9.30am
BBC iplayer is very important to us here, and watchable through a cheap, decent VPN. And we do pay a licence as our cottage in the UK is a holiday let.

Slimey Toad

Karsiyaka, North Cyprus 17 Jan 22 9.30am

BBC iplayer is very important to us here, and watchable through a cheap, decent VPN.

And we do pay a licence as our cottage in the UK is a holiday let.

Stirlingsays 17 Jan 22 10.51am
Originally posted by Badger11 Like you i am cynical that the government will actually do anything about these crossing. I believe the navy will call it Operation Taxi service (it will work like an Uber) Indeed, until they sort out the legal basis....and indeed the legal profession it's like using an axe against a mountain. Something they are well aware of. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Jan 2022 10.52am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

17 Jan 22 10.51am

Originally posted by Badger11

Like you i am cynical that the government will actually do anything about these crossing. I believe the navy will call it Operation Taxi service (it will work like an Uber)

Indeed, until they sort out the legal basis....and indeed the legal profession it's like using an axe against a mountain.

Something they are well aware of.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Jan 2022 10.52am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

HKOwen Hong Kong 17 Jan 22 11.14am
Scrap the licence fee and offer free subscription to people who meet some criteria of age. The BBC gravy train has to be stopped. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

HKOwen

Hong Kong 17 Jan 22 11.14am

Scrap the licence fee and offer free subscription to people who meet some criteria of age. The BBC gravy train has to be stopped.

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

Matov 17 Jan 22 2.19pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Not often I disagree with you Matov I think for the chattering classes it will be a big election issue but they vote Labour anyway. I really don't believe it will be a major part of people's voting reasons at the next election. Personally, I suspect it will be the culture war divide at the next election. The 'chattering classes' vote Labour no matter what, and tend to do so in seats where Labour piles up huge majorities. But those are not the battleground that Labour needs to win if it stands a chance. The lower the socio-economic status of a person, the more they object to paying the BBC licence fee. It is an issue that will matter in the very seats Labour needs to win back if it is to stand a chance. Which is the point of the policy. If Labour have any real intention of forming the next Government then they have to mirror the Tories pledge on the BBC. Question is will their membership allow them to do so? If Labour continues to support the licence fee model, then they are creating a genuine own-goal for the Tories to hammer home, time and time again. Along with offering the Tories the chance to proclaim the BBC are biased against them based on this policy. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

17 Jan 22 2.19pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Personally, I suspect it will be the culture war divide at the next election.

The 'chattering classes' vote Labour no matter what, and tend to do so in seats where Labour piles up huge majorities. But those are not the battleground that Labour needs to win if it stands a chance.

The lower the socio-economic status of a person, the more they object to paying the BBC licence fee. It is an issue that will matter in the very seats Labour needs to win back if it is to stand a chance. Which is the point of the policy.

If Labour have any real intention of forming the next Government then they have to mirror the Tories pledge on the BBC. Question is will their membership allow them to do so?

If Labour continues to support the licence fee model, then they are creating a genuine own-goal for the Tories to hammer home, time and time again. Along with offering the Tories the chance to proclaim the BBC are biased against them based on this policy.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

The Dolphin 17 Jan 22 2.34pm
I just saw an MSN - i know they are biased - quick interview with various older people from the North East from earlier today - to a man/woman they want to see the BBC defunded and look after itself. No one younger than 70 years old was asked the question

The Dolphin

17 Jan 22 2.34pm

I just saw an MSN - i know they are biased - quick interview with various older people from the North East from earlier today - to a man/woman they want to see the BBC defunded and look after itself.
No one younger than 70 years old was asked the question

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