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Israel / Palestine

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View jcreedy's Profile jcreedy Flag 22 Jul 14 1.41pm Send a Private Message to jcreedy Add jcreedy as a friend

Quote Cucking Funt at 22 Jul 2014 12.55pm

Quote jcreedy at 22 Jul 2014 12.47pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 22 Jul 2014 12.45pm

If Hamas would stop lobbing missiles at Israel, then the Israelis would stop lobbing missiles at them. But would Hamas stop unilaterally? I'm not sure. Or is this too simplistic?


Hamas wanted sanctions lifted, borders eased, years of restriction ended, and innocent prisoners released. Until they get that, they won't stop. The conditions in which the Palestinians have suffered for years are terrible.

If I were Hamas, I'd keep lobbing the missiles at those b******s too.

Edited by jcreedy (22 Jul 2014 12.51pm)


I merely asked the question. I've said before, it comes down to whether one believes if Israel has a right to exist or not. History has shown that, whenever they drop their guard, someone, somewhere, has a pop at them. I'm pretty certain Israel would welcome an undertaking that none of their neighbours will try to obliterate them.

I understand, but some posters make it sound like this is a fair and equal fight. Israel has highly sophisticated, US-backed military, whereas Hamas have whatever they can cobble together.

I just find it massively hypocritical for a collective that was targeted to be exterminated by an evil regime is now basically doing the same to the Palestinians.

It also f***s me off that 75% to 80% of the Tories are members of Conservative Friends of Israel, which means that they're never likely to criticise Israel's actions, and their US backing.

 


It was my dream to play for Palace and to make my debut. I've always played for the club so if I'm playing here, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

- John Bostock (Nov 2007)

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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Eggefahrt 22 Jul 14 1.42pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Jul 2014 1.38pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 22 Jul 2014 1.32pm

Correct.

The long term aim of the surrounding (all islamic) countries is the ejection of the Jews from the caliphate. As long as Israel exists, the islamic world will strive to obliterate it by whatever means necessary. Working on the premise that Israel has the right to exist, surely the starting point in any negotiations must be acceptance of that right. Israel is surrounded by people who wish ill of it. We can debate forever the apparently brutal means the Israelis adopt to reinforce that right but the plain fact is, Israel's stance is essentially one of defensiveness.

So, where do we go from there?


I agree.

We wait.....Wait under the players are tired of killing each other and their paymasters Iran, Saudi and the US are willing to push the sides to agree to something practical.

Until them this horrid tragedy of wasted lives will continue down the generations.


Moslem intransigence. As they are about everything wherever their precious mohammed is involved.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 22 Jul 14 1.51pm

Some Americans have gone to Israel to help them fight.
If they'd have gone to Syria, no doubt they'd have been labelled as Western Jihadists...

 

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 22 Jul 14 2.01pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

The right-wing in Israel have never wanted real peace due to it encompassing the two-state solution which is anathema.

They need conflict to control that status quo and they are brilliant at keeping it all bubbling just enough even in times of a reduction of hostilities. Embargos, restriction of movement, low-flying fighter jets, etc.

Hamas is the best thing that ever happened to them.


It's a 70 year game of football and the Palestinians have found it very difficult to get out of their own half.

 


Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]


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View npn's Profile npn Flag Crowborough 22 Jul 14 2.10pm Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

Quote jcreedy at 22 Jul 2014 1.41pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 22 Jul 2014 12.55pm

Quote jcreedy at 22 Jul 2014 12.47pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 22 Jul 2014 12.45pm

If Hamas would stop lobbing missiles at Israel, then the Israelis would stop lobbing missiles at them. But would Hamas stop unilaterally? I'm not sure. Or is this too simplistic?


Hamas wanted sanctions lifted, borders eased, years of restriction ended, and innocent prisoners released. Until they get that, they won't stop. The conditions in which the Palestinians have suffered for years are terrible.

If I were Hamas, I'd keep lobbing the missiles at those b******s too.

Edited by jcreedy (22 Jul 2014 12.51pm)


I merely asked the question. I've said before, it comes down to whether one believes if Israel has a right to exist or not. History has shown that, whenever they drop their guard, someone, somewhere, has a pop at them. I'm pretty certain Israel would welcome an undertaking that none of their neighbours will try to obliterate them.

I understand, but some posters make it sound like this is a fair and equal fight. Israel has highly sophisticated, US-backed military, whereas Hamas have whatever they can cobble together.

I just find it massively hypocritical for a collective that was targeted to be exterminated by an evil regime is now basically doing the same to the Palestinians.

It also f***s me off that 75% to 80% of the Tories are members of Conservative Friends of Israel, which means that they're never likely to criticise Israel's actions, and their US backing.


It certainly isn't a fair or equal fight, but I've spoken to several israelis about it, and it's difficult to argue against the idea that the fact a smaller and less powerful side is attacking it is no reason not to retaliate.

If a little bloke comes up and punches you on the nose, you are unlikely to let it go because you're stronger and it wouldn't be a fair fight.

Difficult to know where this is going - the only thing that will work is a two-state solution, but it doesn't seem there is sufficient desire on either side for that.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 22 Jul 14 2.20pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 22 Jul 2014 1.51pm

Some Americans have gone to Israel to help them fight.
If they'd have gone to Syria, no doubt they'd have been labelled as Western Jihadists...


Not sure how that works.....It's the IDF in Gaza not a militia or muster of foreigners.

Also it's hardly the same the lot in Syria are fighting for a caliphate.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View jcreedy's Profile jcreedy Flag 22 Jul 14 2.32pm Send a Private Message to jcreedy Add jcreedy as a friend

Quote npn at 22 Jul 2014 2.10pm

Quote jcreedy at 22 Jul 2014 1.41pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 22 Jul 2014 12.55pm

Quote jcreedy at 22 Jul 2014 12.47pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 22 Jul 2014 12.45pm

If Hamas would stop lobbing missiles at Israel, then the Israelis would stop lobbing missiles at them. But would Hamas stop unilaterally? I'm not sure. Or is this too simplistic?


Hamas wanted sanctions lifted, borders eased, years of restriction ended, and innocent prisoners released. Until they get that, they won't stop. The conditions in which the Palestinians have suffered for years are terrible.

If I were Hamas, I'd keep lobbing the missiles at those b******s too.

Edited by jcreedy (22 Jul 2014 12.51pm)


I merely asked the question. I've said before, it comes down to whether one believes if Israel has a right to exist or not. History has shown that, whenever they drop their guard, someone, somewhere, has a pop at them. I'm pretty certain Israel would welcome an undertaking that none of their neighbours will try to obliterate them.

I understand, but some posters make it sound like this is a fair and equal fight. Israel has highly sophisticated, US-backed military, whereas Hamas have whatever they can cobble together.

I just find it massively hypocritical for a collective that was targeted to be exterminated by an evil regime is now basically doing the same to the Palestinians.

It also f***s me off that 75% to 80% of the Tories are members of Conservative Friends of Israel, which means that they're never likely to criticise Israel's actions, and their US backing.


It certainly isn't a fair or equal fight, but I've spoken to several israelis about it, and it's difficult to argue against the idea that the fact a smaller and less powerful side is attacking it is no reason not to retaliate.

If a little bloke comes up and punches you on the nose, you are unlikely to let it go because you're stronger and it wouldn't be a fair fight.

Difficult to know where this is going - the only thing that will work is a two-state solution, but it doesn't seem there is sufficient desire on either side for that.


Maybe the little bloke is punching you on the nose because you've taken away his quality of life, killed his family members, built encroaching steel walls around his house, and taken his land away. No wonder he's unhappy about it.

I have a couple of friends of similar age who have been in the Israeli army (compulsory military service), and they so brainwashed that they wouldn't even consider the fact that Israel is being unreasonable.

Whatever their reasons for attacking, killing children playing on beach is both revolting and unacceptable.

Edited by jcreedy (22 Jul 2014 2.33pm)

 


It was my dream to play for Palace and to make my debut. I've always played for the club so if I'm playing here, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

- John Bostock (Nov 2007)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 22 Jul 14 2.34pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 22 Jul 2014 2.01pm

The right-wing in Israel have never wanted real peace due to it encompassing the two-state solution which is anathema.

They need conflict to control that status quo and they are brilliant at keeping it all bubbling just enough even in times of a reduction of hostilities. Embargos, restriction of movement, low-flying fighter jets, etc.

Hamas is the best thing that ever happened to them.


It's a 70 year game of football and the Palestinians have found it very difficult to get out of their own half.


The two state solution is a risk for Israel......It would have to be structured very carefully to ensure that Palestine couldn't become powerful and then be a launch pad for war.

Lots of Israelis kind of think....'what's in it for me?' They are my enemy and hate me....Keep them weak.

Far easier for the right in Israel to take the long term view and slowly but surely 'encourage' the Palestinians that emigration is a good thing.

Totally unethical of course but the right in Israel just don't think peace is possible.

To be honest I see their point and they are probably right.....But I can't agree that a policy of gradually pushing them out is acceptable.

A two state solution is possible.....It could be achieved......It just has to involve a lot of work from all the players and backers and compromise.

Not going to happen anytime soon.


Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Jul 2014 2.35pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View npn's Profile npn Flag Crowborough 22 Jul 14 2.40pm Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

Quote jcreedy at 22 Jul 2014 2.32pm

Quote npn at 22 Jul 2014 2.10pm

Quote jcreedy at 22 Jul 2014 1.41pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 22 Jul 2014 12.55pm

Quote jcreedy at 22 Jul 2014 12.47pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 22 Jul 2014 12.45pm

If Hamas would stop lobbing missiles at Israel, then the Israelis would stop lobbing missiles at them. But would Hamas stop unilaterally? I'm not sure. Or is this too simplistic?


Hamas wanted sanctions lifted, borders eased, years of restriction ended, and innocent prisoners released. Until they get that, they won't stop. The conditions in which the Palestinians have suffered for years are terrible.

If I were Hamas, I'd keep lobbing the missiles at those b******s too.

Edited by jcreedy (22 Jul 2014 12.51pm)


I merely asked the question. I've said before, it comes down to whether one believes if Israel has a right to exist or not. History has shown that, whenever they drop their guard, someone, somewhere, has a pop at them. I'm pretty certain Israel would welcome an undertaking that none of their neighbours will try to obliterate them.

I understand, but some posters make it sound like this is a fair and equal fight. Israel has highly sophisticated, US-backed military, whereas Hamas have whatever they can cobble together.

I just find it massively hypocritical for a collective that was targeted to be exterminated by an evil regime is now basically doing the same to the Palestinians.

It also f***s me off that 75% to 80% of the Tories are members of Conservative Friends of Israel, which means that they're never likely to criticise Israel's actions, and their US backing.


It certainly isn't a fair or equal fight, but I've spoken to several israelis about it, and it's difficult to argue against the idea that the fact a smaller and less powerful side is attacking it is no reason not to retaliate.

If a little bloke comes up and punches you on the nose, you are unlikely to let it go because you're stronger and it wouldn't be a fair fight.

Difficult to know where this is going - the only thing that will work is a two-state solution, but it doesn't seem there is sufficient desire on either side for that.


Maybe the little bloke is punching you on the nose because you've taken away his quality of life, killed his family members, built encroaching steel walls around his house, and taken his land away. No wonder he's unhappy about it.

I have a couple of friends of similar age who have been in the Israeli army (compulsory military service), and they so brainwashed that they wouldn't even consider the fact that Israel is being unreasonable.

Whatever their reasons for attacking, killing children playing on beach is both revolting and unacceptable.

Edited by jcreedy (22 Jul 2014 2.33pm)


I don't disagree with you in the slightest, but my suggestion for both the little bloke and Hamas would be the same - stop the aggression, and put the stronger party in a position where any continued action against you just makes them an indefensible bully. The only concern would be (from a Hamas perspective) that the international community just says "well that's all calmed down then" and doesn't push for a long term solution.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 22 Jul 14 2.44pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote npn at 22 Jul 2014 2.40pm

I don't disagree with you in the slightest, but my suggestion for both the little bloke and Hamas would be the same - stop the aggression, and put the stronger party in a position where any continued action against you just makes them an indefensible bully. The only concern would be (from a Hamas perspective) that the international community just says "well that's all calmed down then" and doesn't push for a long term solution.

Nothing happens till Hamas recognize Israel and changes their constitution to end seeking their destruction.

That won't happen until their Iranian and Saudi paymasters who keep them going also agree.

The only hope for Gaza is that they vote Hamas out.

That won't happen until Hamas stop firing rockets long enough to hold an election.

Don't hold your breath.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 22 Jul 14 2.47pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Jul 2014 2.44pm

Quote npn at 22 Jul 2014 2.40pm

I don't disagree with you in the slightest, but my suggestion for both the little bloke and Hamas would be the same - stop the aggression, and put the stronger party in a position where any continued action against you just makes them an indefensible bully. The only concern would be (from a Hamas perspective) that the international community just says "well that's all calmed down then" and doesn't push for a long term solution.

Nothing happens till Hamas recognize Israel and changes their constitution to end seeking their destruction.

That won't happen until their Iranian and Saudi paymasters who keep them going also agree.

The only hope for Gaza is that they vote Hamas out.

That won't happen until Hamas stop firing rockets long enough to hold an election.

Don't hold your breath.


Still a massive overreaction from the Israelis- not enough condemnation from the rest of the world about the kidnapping/arrest of young children, the blatant killing of innocent children or deliberate bombing of hospitals.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 22 Jul 14 2.50pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 22 Jul 2014 2.47pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Jul 2014 2.44pm

Quote npn at 22 Jul 2014 2.40pm

I don't disagree with you in the slightest, but my suggestion for both the little bloke and Hamas would be the same - stop the aggression, and put the stronger party in a position where any continued action against you just makes them an indefensible bully. The only concern would be (from a Hamas perspective) that the international community just says "well that's all calmed down then" and doesn't push for a long term solution.

Nothing happens till Hamas recognize Israel and changes their constitution to end seeking their destruction.

That won't happen until their Iranian and Saudi paymasters who keep them going also agree.

The only hope for Gaza is that they vote Hamas out.

That won't happen until Hamas stop firing rockets long enough to hold an election.

Don't hold your breath.


Still a massive overreaction from the Israelis- not enough condemnation from the rest of the world about the kidnapping/arrest of young children, the blatant killing of innocent children or deliberate bombing of hospitals.


When guns are fired innocents are among the dead. Same as it ever was in any conflict. The beach thing seems very bad to me....Should be investigated but I'm not sure what you think is going to be achieved.

Nothing can be done until the parties and their paymasters want to change the record.

Boycott all the fruit you want.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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