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Israel / Palestine

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View npn's Profile npn Flag Crowborough 22 Jul 14 2.59pm Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 22 Jul 2014 2.47pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Jul 2014 2.44pm

Quote npn at 22 Jul 2014 2.40pm

I don't disagree with you in the slightest, but my suggestion for both the little bloke and Hamas would be the same - stop the aggression, and put the stronger party in a position where any continued action against you just makes them an indefensible bully. The only concern would be (from a Hamas perspective) that the international community just says "well that's all calmed down then" and doesn't push for a long term solution.

Nothing happens till Hamas recognize Israel and changes their constitution to end seeking their destruction.

That won't happen until their Iranian and Saudi paymasters who keep them going also agree.

The only hope for Gaza is that they vote Hamas out.

That won't happen until Hamas stop firing rockets long enough to hold an election.

Don't hold your breath.


Still a massive overreaction from the Israelis- not enough condemnation from the rest of the world about the kidnapping/arrest of young children, the blatant killing of innocent children or deliberate bombing of hospitals.


One of that analogies put to me by an Israeli was "what if, during the Northern Ireland troubles, there were weekly rocket attacks coming in to the home counties from Dublin - would you not expect your government to do something to protect the people?"

There are quite a few parallels - we are stronger than Ireland, we could be argued to be occupying their land and they want it back, mnost of the rockets would be falling in empty space doing little damage.

Again, please don't take this as meaning I'm an apologist for Israeli aggression, but I'm anti Hamas aggression too. I just want a long term solution which leaves a peaceful and safe Israel, and a peaceful and safe internationally recognised Palestine which recognises the Israeli right to exist

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 22 Jul 14 3.01pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Jul 2014 2.50pm

Quote nickgusset at 22 Jul 2014 2.47pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Jul 2014 2.44pm

Quote npn at 22 Jul 2014 2.40pm

I don't disagree with you in the slightest, but my suggestion for both the little bloke and Hamas would be the same - stop the aggression, and put the stronger party in a position where any continued action against you just makes them an indefensible bully. The only concern would be (from a Hamas perspective) that the international community just says "well that's all calmed down then" and doesn't push for a long term solution.

Nothing happens till Hamas recognize Israel and changes their constitution to end seeking their destruction.

That won't happen until their Iranian and Saudi paymasters who keep them going also agree.

The only hope for Gaza is that they vote Hamas out.

That won't happen until Hamas stop firing rockets long enough to hold an election.

Don't hold your breath.


Still a massive overreaction from the Israelis- not enough condemnation from the rest of the world about the kidnapping/arrest of young children, the blatant killing of innocent children or deliberate bombing of hospitals.


When guns are fired innocents are among the dead. Same as it ever was in any conflict. The beach thing seems very bad to me....Should be investigated but I'm not sure what you think is going to be achieved.

Nothing can be done until the parties and their paymasters want to change the record.

Boycott all the fruit you want.

Look around the Internet about what has happened to Palestinian kids at the hands of Israeli soldiers. It goes far above what should happen in a theatre of war and with alarming regularity . Why aren't these actions being condemned and sanctions being taken?

 

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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 22 Jul 14 3.09pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 22 Jul 2014 3.01pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Jul 2014 2.50pm

Quote nickgusset at 22 Jul 2014 2.47pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Jul 2014 2.44pm

Quote npn at 22 Jul 2014 2.40pm

I don't disagree with you in the slightest, but my suggestion for both the little bloke and Hamas would be the same - stop the aggression, and put the stronger party in a position where any continued action against you just makes them an indefensible bully. The only concern would be (from a Hamas perspective) that the international community just says "well that's all calmed down then" and doesn't push for a long term solution.

Nothing happens till Hamas recognize Israel and changes their constitution to end seeking their destruction.

That won't happen until their Iranian and Saudi paymasters who keep them going also agree.

The only hope for Gaza is that they vote Hamas out.

That won't happen until Hamas stop firing rockets long enough to hold an election.

Don't hold your breath.


Still a massive overreaction from the Israelis- not enough condemnation from the rest of the world about the kidnapping/arrest of young children, the blatant killing of innocent children or deliberate bombing of hospitals.


When guns are fired innocents are among the dead. Same as it ever was in any conflict. The beach thing seems very bad to me....Should be investigated but I'm not sure what you think is going to be achieved.

Nothing can be done until the parties and their paymasters want to change the record.

Boycott all the fruit you want.

Look around the Internet about what has happened to Palestinian kids at the hands of Israeli soldiers. It goes far above what should happen in a theatre of war and with alarming regularity . Why aren't these actions being condemned and sanctions being taken?


Of course. Definitive info right there.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 22 Jul 14 3.12pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 22 Jul 2014 3.09pm

Quote nickgusset at 22 Jul 2014 3.01pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Jul 2014 2.50pm

Quote nickgusset at 22 Jul 2014 2.47pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Jul 2014 2.44pm

Quote npn at 22 Jul 2014 2.40pm

I don't disagree with you in the slightest, but my suggestion for both the little bloke and Hamas would be the same - stop the aggression, and put the stronger party in a position where any continued action against you just makes them an indefensible bully. The only concern would be (from a Hamas perspective) that the international community just says "well that's all calmed down then" and doesn't push for a long term solution.

Nothing happens till Hamas recognize Israel and changes their constitution to end seeking their destruction.

That won't happen until their Iranian and Saudi paymasters who keep them going also agree.

The only hope for Gaza is that they vote Hamas out.

That won't happen until Hamas stop firing rockets long enough to hold an election.

Don't hold your breath.


Still a massive overreaction from the Israelis- not enough condemnation from the rest of the world about the kidnapping/arrest of young children, the blatant killing of innocent children or deliberate bombing of hospitals.


When guns are fired innocents are among the dead. Same as it ever was in any conflict. The beach thing seems very bad to me....Should be investigated but I'm not sure what you think is going to be achieved.

Nothing can be done until the parties and their paymasters want to change the record.

Boycott all the fruit you want.

Look around the Internet about what has happened to Palestinian kids at the hands of Israeli soldiers. It goes far above what should happen in a theatre of war and with alarming regularity . Why aren't these actions being condemned and sanctions being taken?


Of course. Definitive info right there.


[Link]

 

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View davidpercival's Profile davidpercival Flag Croydon 22 Jul 14 3.14pm Send a Private Message to davidpercival Add davidpercival as a friend

The fact is that the IRA did regularly bomb the UK over an extended period of time and we did not resort to blowing up civilians as the Israelis do. Admittedly there were atrocities commited by British troops which has finally been recognised but nothing along the lines of what the Palestians have experienced for decades now

.

Quote npn at 22 Jul 2014 2.59pm

Quote nickgusset at 22 Jul 2014 2.47pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Jul 2014 2.44pm

Quote npn at 22 Jul 2014 2.40pm

I don't disagree with you in the slightest, but my suggestion for both the little bloke and Hamas would be the same - stop the aggression, and put the stronger party in a position where any continued action against you just makes them an indefensible bully. The only concern would be (from a Hamas perspective) that the international community just says "well that's all calmed down then" and doesn't push for a long term solution.

Nothing happens till Hamas recognize Israel and changes their constitution to end seeking their destruction.

That won't happen until their Iranian and Saudi paymasters who keep them going also agree.

The only hope for Gaza is that they vote Hamas out.

That won't happen until Hamas stop firing rockets long enough to hold an election.

Don't hold your breath.


Still a massive overreaction from the Israelis- not enough condemnation from the rest of the world about the kidnapping/arrest of young children, the blatant killing of innocent children or deliberate bombing of hospitals.


One of that analogies put to me by an Israeli was "what if, during the Northern Ireland troubles, there were weekly rocket attacks coming in to the home counties from Dublin - would you not expect your government to do something to protect the people?"

There are quite a few parallels - we are stronger than Ireland, we could be argued to be occupying their land and they want it back, mnost of the rockets would be falling in empty space doing little damage.

Again, please don't take this as meaning I'm an apologist for Israeli aggression, but I'm anti Hamas aggression too. I just want a long term solution which leaves a peaceful and safe Israel, and a peaceful and safe internationally recognised Palestine which recognises the Israeli right to exist


 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 22 Jul 14 3.20pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 22 Jul 2014 3.01pm

Look around the Internet about what has happened to Palestinian kids at the hands of Israeli soldiers. It goes far above what should happen in a theatre of war and with alarming regularity . Why aren't these actions being condemned and sanctions being taken?


That has been answered so many times.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View npn's Profile npn Flag Crowborough 22 Jul 14 3.21pm Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

Quote davidpercival at 22 Jul 2014 3.14pm

The fact is that the IRA did regularly bomb the UK over an extended period of time and we did not resort to blowing up civilians as the Israelis do. Admittedly there were atrocities commited by British troops which has finally been recognised but nothing along the lines of what the Palestians have experienced for decades now

.

Quote npn at 22 Jul 2014 2.59pm

Quote nickgusset at 22 Jul 2014 2.47pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Jul 2014 2.44pm

Quote npn at 22 Jul 2014 2.40pm

I don't disagree with you in the slightest, but my suggestion for both the little bloke and Hamas would be the same - stop the aggression, and put the stronger party in a position where any continued action against you just makes them an indefensible bully. The only concern would be (from a Hamas perspective) that the international community just says "well that's all calmed down then" and doesn't push for a long term solution.

Nothing happens till Hamas recognize Israel and changes their constitution to end seeking their destruction.

That won't happen until their Iranian and Saudi paymasters who keep them going also agree.

The only hope for Gaza is that they vote Hamas out.

That won't happen until Hamas stop firing rockets long enough to hold an election.

Don't hold your breath.


Still a massive overreaction from the Israelis- not enough condemnation from the rest of the world about the kidnapping/arrest of young children, the blatant killing of innocent children or deliberate bombing of hospitals.


One of that analogies put to me by an Israeli was "what if, during the Northern Ireland troubles, there were weekly rocket attacks coming in to the home counties from Dublin - would you not expect your government to do something to protect the people?"

There are quite a few parallels - we are stronger than Ireland, we could be argued to be occupying their land and they want it back, mnost of the rockets would be falling in empty space doing little damage.

Again, please don't take this as meaning I'm an apologist for Israeli aggression, but I'm anti Hamas aggression too. I just want a long term solution which leaves a peaceful and safe Israel, and a peaceful and safe internationally recognised Palestine which recognises the Israeli right to exist



Hence the 'imagine if' scenario - I was not suggesting a series of terrorists, however organised, attacking, however indiscriminately. I was suggesting rockets being fired from within Dublin probably with the backing of the Irish government.

An attempt would be made to ascertain where those rockets were being fired from and probably to put them out of action. If the government made no such attempt, the public would be furious.

The IRA atrocities in the form they took doesn't compare.

 

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View davidpercival's Profile davidpercival Flag Croydon 22 Jul 14 3.25pm Send a Private Message to davidpercival Add davidpercival as a friend

That does make me wonder why you bothered to reply to my posting in the first place but if you have got a closed mind and nothing new to say we will leave it at that.


Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Jul 2014 9.59pm

Quote davidpercival at 21 Jul 2014 9.06pm

They have had 47 years years to listen. How much longer do you expect the Palestinians to take it? What do you see as a "practical solution" to the problem?

Because of Israel's actions over the past decades, Fatah and Hamas have agreed to have a coalition government, and it is the right of the Palestian people to elect whoever they want.

Who are you to decide who they should be electing?

The idea that Hamas could destroy Israel is ridiculous. Israel has every sort of weapon you can imagine (including nuclear) whereas the Palestians have pea shooters by comparison. Yet Israel is threatened? If they stopped occupying great stretches of land containing millions of people that might be a "practical solution".

The fact is Hamas does not control Gaza. Israel does. Israel decides every little thing that comes in and out of Gaza and bombs and shells it whenever it wants to, which is increasingly often. Hamas controls it in the same way that the toughest prisoners control the prisons, but the prison warders decide nearly everything the prisoners can do.

Are you happy that over a million people are being bombed and shelled as we write?

In the Second World War the Germans had a policy of killing 100 people in the occupied territories for every one of theres that got killed. It may be by different methods but that is exactly the ratio of fatalities in the Israeli occupied territories. And it hasn't just been for four years like the Germans - it has been for more than 40 years.

Carrying on buying your fruit from Israel if you like but for me it would taste of the blood of Palestinian children blown up on a beach by Isareli guns and I could not eat it and not feel sick.


I think if I address your points in this post I'd be repeating myself. I've pretty much typed about all the issues you refer to.

In short I'm pretty much in direct opposition to your whole one eyed presentation of this conflict.....Especially in relation to Hamas.

And like Hamas and Israel, we don't really have anything constructive to talk about.


 

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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 22 Jul 14 3.27pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Quote davidpercival at 22 Jul 2014 3.14pm

The fact is that the IRA did regularly bomb the UK over an extended period of time and we did not resort to blowing up civilians as the Israelis do. Admittedly there were atrocities commited by British troops which has finally been recognised but nothing along the lines of what the Palestians have experienced for decades now

.

Quote npn at 22 Jul 2014 2.59pm

Quote nickgusset at 22 Jul 2014 2.47pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Jul 2014 2.44pm

Quote npn at 22 Jul 2014 2.40pm

I don't disagree with you in the slightest, but my suggestion for both the little bloke and Hamas would be the same - stop the aggression, and put the stronger party in a position where any continued action against you just makes them an indefensible bully. The only concern would be (from a Hamas perspective) that the international community just says "well that's all calmed down then" and doesn't push for a long term solution.

Nothing happens till Hamas recognize Israel and changes their constitution to end seeking their destruction.

That won't happen until their Iranian and Saudi paymasters who keep them going also agree.

The only hope for Gaza is that they vote Hamas out.

That won't happen until Hamas stop firing rockets long enough to hold an election.

Don't hold your breath.


Still a massive overreaction from the Israelis- not enough condemnation from the rest of the world about the kidnapping/arrest of young children, the blatant killing of innocent children or deliberate bombing of hospitals.


One of that analogies put to me by an Israeli was "what if, during the Northern Ireland troubles, there were weekly rocket attacks coming in to the home counties from Dublin - would you not expect your government to do something to protect the people?"

There are quite a few parallels - we are stronger than Ireland, we could be argued to be occupying their land and they want it back, mnost of the rockets would be falling in empty space doing little damage.

Again, please don't take this as meaning I'm an apologist for Israeli aggression, but I'm anti Hamas aggression too. I just want a long term solution which leaves a peaceful and safe Israel, and a peaceful and safe internationally recognised Palestine which recognises the Israeli right to exist



The IRA weren't firing rockets at the UK from Ireland. The comparison is hardly a realistic one.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 22 Jul 14 3.29pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote davidpercival at 22 Jul 2014 3.25pm

That does make me wonder why you bothered to reply to my posting in the first place but if you have got a closed mind and nothing new to say we will leave it at that.


How else do I tell you that your views are so out of balance that debating with you becomes kind of pointless?

You are an apologist for Hamas, pure and simple.....What's the point? You stand for what I stand against.

You saying I've a 'closed mind' is kind of the kettle calling the pot black.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Jul 2014 3.29pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 22 Jul 14 3.40pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Jul 2014 3.29pm

Quote davidpercival at 22 Jul 2014 3.25pm

That does make me wonder why you bothered to reply to my posting in the first place but if you have got a closed mind and nothing new to say we will leave it at that.


How else do I tell you that your views are so out of balance that debating with you becomes kind of pointless?

You are an apologist for Hamas, pure and simple.....What's the point? You stand for what I stand against.

You saying I've a 'closed mind' is kind of the kettle calling the pot black.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Jul 2014 3.29pm)


Blindly anti-Israel, blindly anti-Britain, blindly leftie loony.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 22 Jul 14 4.04pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 22 Jul 2014 3.40pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Jul 2014 3.29pm

Quote davidpercival at 22 Jul 2014 3.25pm

That does make me wonder why you bothered to reply to my posting in the first place but if you have got a closed mind and nothing new to say we will leave it at that.


How else do I tell you that your views are so out of balance that debating with you becomes kind of pointless?

You are an apologist for Hamas, pure and simple.....What's the point? You stand for what I stand against.

You saying I've a 'closed mind' is kind of the kettle calling the pot black.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Jul 2014 3.29pm)


Blindly anti-Israel, blindly anti-Britain, blindly leftie loony.


Enough about Stirlingsays, what do you think of Mr Percival?

 

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