EU forces compulsory quotas on opposed countries
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 Stirlingsays  24 Sep 15 5.10pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Sep 2015 1.02pm
That's the nature of a democracy, you don't have to obey the demands of others. Its their choice - I have respect for those who choose to join the military, but I don't believe it in anyway makes you more British or integrated. Especially given I didn't join either. The Police service has around 2000 members of the Muslim Police Association, although that includes workers as well as officers. That said, UK recruitment of Muslims into the Armed forces has risen 40% since 2007 according [Link] But both the military and the armed forces have always struggled with appealing to ethnic minorities in the UK, and historically had allegations that tarnished their reputations (both having been widely criticized from within and without, as being sexist, racist and homophobic environments). Integration with society is a two way street. The expectation that a group in society must conform to the presumed demands of other groups in society is absurd.
Islamic participation in either service is way below the average. I regard an intelligent man as yourself as just willfully ignoring the implications of that.....Mainly because the warning bells that this rings aren't bells that you care for anyway. I firmly disagree with you upon the matter of allegiance......And would of course reject any representative who pushes the view that I should feel that way. People born and brought up without any 'mixed' allegiance are in my view far more valuable to a host country than what you consider as equal. Two way street? Like bugger is it a two way street. My son won't grow up expecting society to meet him half-way. He'll integrate because I'll bring him up as English. He won't require any 'concessions' from a host culture as he will be apart of the host culture. People who bring their children up as any different are in my view a massive cohesive pain in the neck. Still, they will always have a certain political demographic arguing for them.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 24 Sep 15 5.12pm |
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Statistics lies and bubble gum. What to believe. Lets not forget the polls taken after 7/7 of course. They didn't paint such a rosy picture.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 24 Sep 15 7.20pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Sep 2015 5.12pm
Statistics lies and bubble gum. What to believe. Lets not forget the polls taken after 7/7 of course. They didn't paint such a rosy picture.
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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| oldcodger 24 Sep 15 7.38pm |
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Quote susmik at 24 Sep 2015 7.20pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Sep 2015 5.12pm
Statistics lies and bubble gum. What to believe. Lets not forget the polls taken after 7/7 of course. They didn't paint such a rosy picture.
How anyone can type that with a straight face is beyond me.
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| susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 24 Sep 15 7.49pm |
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Quote oldcodger at 24 Sep 2015 7.38pm
Quote susmik at 24 Sep 2015 7.20pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Sep 2015 5.12pm
Statistics lies and bubble gum. What to believe. Lets not forget the polls taken after 7/7 of course. They didn't paint such a rosy picture.
How anyone can type that with a straight face is beyond me. Edited by oldcodger (24 Sep 2015 7.39pm) I can and will as you yourself need to see and digest the broader picture instead of just being blinkered oldcodger. You need to follow the news more inwardly digest it. I suggest you Look a bit further than the end of your nose ...
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 24 Sep 15 10.26pm |
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Quote Kermit8 at 24 Sep 2015 4.31pm
Quote susmik at 24 Sep 2015 3.59pm
Quote elgrande at 24 Sep 2015 3.45pm
Quote nickgusset at 24 Sep 2015 12.48pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 24 Sep 2015 12.45pm
Quote nickgusset at 24 Sep 2015 12.30pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 24 Sep 2015 10.08am
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Sep 2015 7.05am
In fact I don't want an extra large body of religious people making a life here if I'm honest. That goes for any religion. I'd prefer this country to increase its secular majority not look to increase it.....Religious families breed more than secular ones. If I were taking from the camps you'd be getting secularists first and 'cultural' Muslims rather than the Islamic versions of Holy Joes. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Sep 2015 7.10am)
They will not "integrate" with our society, but attach themselves to muslim communities already here causing more racial tension as they apply for more and more Mosques to be built and Halal style slaughter houses. How many terrorists are hiding amongst these refugees waiting their chance to gain entry to the UK? I'd rather we carried on with Cameron's plan. Give more financial aid to the established camps around Syria and then tighten our border controls across Europe before coming up with a UN approved plan to defeat IS and any other threat to modern day peace, so that these people can return to their own homes. How many white British belong to crackpot organisations such as Britain first? Should we say all white British people are racist?
That is a really lazy,and wrong thing to say.
Its not Muslims who knock on my door pushing the 'good word' might be different, but they're not the ones shoving the watch tower through my door. Personally, I want to live in a secular society in which individual choice is defined by the individual where ever possible. And in my experience when it comes to forcing religious morals onto me, its always been Christians influencing politics towards a religious driven agenda rather than any other group. I don't really want any religion, but as I have to put up with one why not the other.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 24 Sep 15 10.35pm |
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Quote susmik at 24 Sep 2015 7.49pm
Quote oldcodger at 24 Sep 2015 7.38pm
Quote susmik at 24 Sep 2015 7.20pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Sep 2015 5.12pm
Statistics lies and bubble gum. What to believe. Lets not forget the polls taken after 7/7 of course. They didn't paint such a rosy picture.
How anyone can type that with a straight face is beyond me. Edited by oldcodger (24 Sep 2015 7.39pm) I can and will as you yourself need to see and digest the broader picture instead of just being blinkered oldcodger. You need to follow the news more inwardly digest it. I suggest you Look a bit further than the end of your nose ...
Pro USA & Israel |
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| oldcodger 24 Sep 15 11.26pm |
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Quote Jimenez at 24 Sep 2015 10.35pm
Quote susmik at 24 Sep 2015 7.49pm
Quote oldcodger at 24 Sep 2015 7.38pm
Quote susmik at 24 Sep 2015 7.20pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Sep 2015 5.12pm
Statistics lies and bubble gum. What to believe. Lets not forget the polls taken after 7/7 of course. They didn't paint such a rosy picture.
How anyone can type that with a straight face is beyond me. Edited by oldcodger (24 Sep 2015 7.39pm) I can and will as you yourself need to see and digest the broader picture instead of just being blinkered oldcodger. You need to follow the news more inwardly digest it. I suggest you Look a bit further than the end of your nose ...
There's nothing wrong with this old codger's todger. Well nothing that modern medicine can't solve!
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| oldcodger 24 Sep 15 11.34pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Sep 2015 1.02pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Sep 2015 12.38pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Sep 2015 10.38am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 24 Sep 2015 10.08am
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Sep 2015 7.05am
In fact I don't want an extra large body of religious people making a life here if I'm honest. That goes for any religion. I'd prefer this country to increase its secular majority not look to increase it.....Religious families breed more than secular ones. If I were taking from the camps you'd be getting secularists first and 'cultural' Muslims rather than the Islamic versions of Holy Joes. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Sep 2015 7.10am)
They will not "integrate" with our society, but attach themselves to muslim communities already here causing more racial tension as they apply for more and more Mosques to be built and Halal style slaughter houses. How many terrorists are hiding amongst these refugees waiting their chance to gain entry to the UK? I'd rather we carried on with Cameron's plan. Give more financial aid to the established camps around Syria and then tighten our border controls across Europe before coming up with a UN approved plan to defeat IS and any other threat to modern day peace, so that these people can return to their own homes. They don't really want to come to Europe either, as displayed by the fact that there weren't many Syrian refugees or asylum applicants prior to the Civil War. In my experience Muslims don't seem to be that much trouble in the UK. You can't focus on a minority, and then view them out of comparison. Lot of Muslims in Reading and Slough and I've worked with quite a few. None of them seemed to be anything other than good natured british citizens - who also seemed to hate the frothing nutbars.
I mean how many of the Muslim population have sons and daughters in the Forces or Police. Nowhere near enough and it speaks of a greater truth than is admitted to. It's integration on their terms, it's benefits without allegiance for too many of them. Any group of any religion that doesn't integrate fully into British life is a problem. Compared to the Jews or Sikhs there is a problem that the left don't focus enough upon because their fears of anything negative connected to minority groups. That's the nature of a democracy, you don't have to obey the demands of others. Its their choice - I have respect for those who choose to join the military, but I don't believe it in anyway makes you more British or integrated. Especially given I didn't join either. The Police service has around 2000 members of the Muslim Police Association, although that includes workers as well as officers. That said, UK recruitment of Muslims into the Armed forces has risen 40% since 2007 according [Link] But both the military and the armed forces have always struggled with appealing to ethnic minorities in the UK, and historically had allegations that tarnished their reputations (both having been widely criticized from within and without, as being sexist, racist and homophobic environments). Integration with society is a two way street. The expectation that a group in society must conform to the presumed demands of other groups in society is absurd. That's key I think. We have to accept that people are going to have different ideas about things. Beyond that, we already have laws in place to clamp down on and control extremism. I ask myself 'what would an average well intentioned british muslim reading this thread think?'. Are they going to become more in tune with their countrymen.. well no, because lots said here is so alienating. That to me is a problem if we are already angry at the fact people aren't assimilating enough. It's possible to make a point without it being a sweeping attack or generation on millions of people. Both muslims and non muslims hold these kind of outlooks and they feed off one another in unfortunate ways. Granted with people coming into the country that is a different issue and as I've said I don't really object to Cameron's approach. It's fairly measured and sensible.
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leifandersonshair  Newport 25 Sep 15 8.52am |
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Quote susmik at 24 Sep 2015 7.20pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Sep 2015 5.12pm
Statistics lies and bubble gum. What to believe. Lets not forget the polls taken after 7/7 of course. They didn't paint such a rosy picture.
And right there, you show your ignorance. Muslim's are not a race. They are followers of the religion Islam. The 'swarm' as you so negatively describe them, are from a number of different countries in the middle east. Maybe you should stop reading the Daily Mail.
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| susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 25 Sep 15 9.23am |
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Quote leifandersonshair at 25 Sep 2015 8.52am
Quote susmik at 24 Sep 2015 7.20pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Sep 2015 5.12pm
Statistics lies and bubble gum. What to believe. Lets not forget the polls taken after 7/7 of course. They didn't paint such a rosy picture.
And right there, you show your ignorance. Muslim's are not a race. They are followers of the religion Islam. The 'swarm' as you so negatively describe them, are from a number of different countries in the middle east. Maybe you should stop reading the Daily Mail. Ok so I got the terminology wrong I apologise I will re phrase that in Belgium they have realised that they are getting over populated with "Muslims" so are sending them back. As for the "swarm" bit you mention they all might be from different countries but when they get to the different borders in which they want to cross they all get together as a "swarm" thereby causing havoc and problems. With regard to the Daily mail, NO I do not read it but it seems you do by mentioning it in your reply, because if you did not how would you know what they write?????
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 25 Sep 15 9.28am |
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Quote oldcodger at 24 Sep 2015 11.34pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Sep 2015 1.02pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Sep 2015 12.38pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Sep 2015 10.38am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 24 Sep 2015 10.08am
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Sep 2015 7.05am
In fact I don't want an extra large body of religious people making a life here if I'm honest. That goes for any religion. I'd prefer this country to increase its secular majority not look to increase it.....Religious families breed more than secular ones. If I were taking from the camps you'd be getting secularists first and 'cultural' Muslims rather than the Islamic versions of Holy Joes. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Sep 2015 7.10am)
They will not "integrate" with our society, but attach themselves to muslim communities already here causing more racial tension as they apply for more and more Mosques to be built and Halal style slaughter houses. How many terrorists are hiding amongst these refugees waiting their chance to gain entry to the UK? I'd rather we carried on with Cameron's plan. Give more financial aid to the established camps around Syria and then tighten our border controls across Europe before coming up with a UN approved plan to defeat IS and any other threat to modern day peace, so that these people can return to their own homes. They don't really want to come to Europe either, as displayed by the fact that there weren't many Syrian refugees or asylum applicants prior to the Civil War. In my experience Muslims don't seem to be that much trouble in the UK. You can't focus on a minority, and then view them out of comparison. Lot of Muslims in Reading and Slough and I've worked with quite a few. None of them seemed to be anything other than good natured british citizens - who also seemed to hate the frothing nutbars.
I mean how many of the Muslim population have sons and daughters in the Forces or Police. Nowhere near enough and it speaks of a greater truth than is admitted to. It's integration on their terms, it's benefits without allegiance for too many of them. Any group of any religion that doesn't integrate fully into British life is a problem. Compared to the Jews or Sikhs there is a problem that the left don't focus enough upon because their fears of anything negative connected to minority groups. That's the nature of a democracy, you don't have to obey the demands of others. Its their choice - I have respect for those who choose to join the military, but I don't believe it in anyway makes you more British or integrated. Especially given I didn't join either. The Police service has around 2000 members of the Muslim Police Association, although that includes workers as well as officers. That said, UK recruitment of Muslims into the Armed forces has risen 40% since 2007 according [Link] But both the military and the armed forces have always struggled with appealing to ethnic minorities in the UK, and historically had allegations that tarnished their reputations (both having been widely criticized from within and without, as being sexist, racist and homophobic environments). Integration with society is a two way street. The expectation that a group in society must conform to the presumed demands of other groups in society is absurd. That's key I think. We have to accept that people are going to have different ideas about things. Beyond that, we already have laws in place to clamp down on and control extremism. I ask myself 'what would an average well intentioned british muslim reading this thread think?'. Are they going to become more in tune with their countrymen.. well no, because lots said here is so alienating. That to me is a problem if we are already angry at the fact people aren't assimilating enough. It's possible to make a point without it being a sweeping attack or generation on millions of people. Both muslims and non muslims hold these kind of outlooks and they feed off one another in unfortunate ways. Granted with people coming into the country that is a different issue and as I've said I don't really object to Cameron's approach. It's fairly measured and sensible.
Pretty much how I see it. In order to understand Islam better I asked a few friends who were Muslim to answer my questions. There is a world of difference between Ishmali Islam (which is one of the most common western Islamic movements), and things like Sunni Waabism and Islamist movements. Some things about Islam I don't like in general, but then I could say the same about Christianity or Capitalism.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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