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April 26 2024 12.56pm

The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 21 May 19 4.24pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Exactly what do you think a "legal legitimate referendum" is?

Only Parliament legislates. They did that when they triggered Article 50 and they can do it again if they decide to repeal that legislation.

You voted out. I voted in. You had slightly more who agreed with you in 2016 but a lot has changed since then and, after a great deal of effort, Parliament still cannot agree exactly what form our withdrawal will take. That some right wing populists want a particular answer doesn't mean that Parliament must agree with them.

So Hammond is 100% correct.

Do you ever tire of double talk?

You don't believe in the validity of the Referendum but you are happy to have another one.

Doublethink nonsense.

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 21 May 19 4.59pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

May has surpassed herself this afternoon with her new offer.

Pass her WA deal then you can pass legislation that means you can kill it off in a second referendum.

Not even mad now. Gone beyond. Bemused is perhaps the best way to describe it.

And almost looking forward to seeing how a future drama-documentary is going to play Mays role in all of this. Is she cunning? Is she pathetic? Is she insane? Is she a secret agent for the Labour Party? Is she Lady Macbeth?

British politics has had numerous through the looking glass moments of late but today beats them all.

Beyond comprehension that a Conservative leader would seemingly destroy her own party and for what ends?

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View Maine Eagle's Profile Maine Eagle Flag USA 21 May 19 5.00pm Send a Private Message to Maine Eagle Add Maine Eagle as a friend

May will be toast soon.

Then it will be Boris Johnson, or someone like Gove or Hunt maybe in the infamous hot seat.

However none of those possible changes in leadership result in any majority for a no deal exit, and before May leaves, her deal will finally be consigned to the scrap heap.

So where does that leave things?

Totally stuck in a quagmire.

Like it or not, and we can argue many times about what questions should be on there, and how to count those votes, a second referendum is the only mechanism by which the country can move out of the impasse.

 


Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 21 May 19 5.01pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Parliament still cannot agree exactly what form our withdrawal will take. That some right wing populists want a particular answer doesn't mean that Parliament must agree with them.

Populist seems to be the remoaners insult of the moment having superceded gammon

We'll see on Thursday whether your so called right wing populist has caught the mood of the country and if the results of the election show that an exit on WTO terms is what is wanted then parliament either has to carry out our wishes or else risk a descendant of Guido Fawkes finishing off what his relative failed to do 400 years ago

Edited by Midlands Eagle (21 May 2019 5.04pm)

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 21 May 19 5.03pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

May will be toast soon.

Then it will be Boris Johnson, or someone like Gove or Hunt maybe in the infamous hot seat.

Please not Gove as it's all his fault that we are in this mess.

If he hadn't knifed his so called friend in the back Boris Johnson would have been Prime Minister instead of May and we would have been extricated from Europe by now

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 21 May 19 5.06pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

I've heard your argument millions of times in different ways and words, its borring.
We voted leave, not a deal. We voted a government into office with a leave manifesto, May has said over 100 times we are leaving,a majority voted for artical 50.

We are leaving and it's you and your type that have brought on the problems We have.
Sore losers.

You will keep hearing it until you start to recognise that it is true. Whilst you might have voted to leave without a deal, you are not all those who voted and not even all those who voted leave. We (not you) voted in a Parliament, and not a government, and whatever they finally decide is what will actually happen. That's the way it works in the UK.


 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 21 May 19 5.09pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Do you ever tire of double talk?

You don't believe in the validity of the Referendum but you are happy to have another one.

Doublethink nonsense.


I have consistently argued AGAINST a second referendum and FOR Parliament to do it's job.

If though they need to consult the people again to see if they will confirm whatever decision they make then that's their decision.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Maine Eagle's Profile Maine Eagle Flag USA 21 May 19 5.10pm Send a Private Message to Maine Eagle Add Maine Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

May has surpassed herself this afternoon with her new offer.

Pass her WA deal then you can pass legislation that means you can kill it off in a second referendum.

Not even mad now. Gone beyond. Bemused is perhaps the best way to describe it.

And almost looking forward to seeing how a future drama-documentary is going to play Mays role in all of this. Is she cunning? Is she pathetic? Is she insane? Is she a secret agent for the Labour Party? Is she Lady Macbeth?

British politics has had numerous through the looking glass moments of late but today beats them all.

Beyond comprehension that a Conservative leader would seemingly destroy her own party and for what ends?

The moment Cameron agreed to the vote in 2016 the seeds were sown of the split of the tory party along pro or anti EU lines. Its demise is soon at hand.

I still think May might come out years from now as a Severus Snape style double agent, who is deliberately fouling this up at every step, to ultimately destroy brexit.

Think of the position she is in though, and you can see this was all fairly predictable really:

1 - She knows without concessions and new benefits for every group opposing her (DUP, labour, lib dems, ERG, Grieve and co) that her deal is utterly dead.

2 - The deal is dead anyway, but she also knows parliament will not shoot itself in the foot along with the whole country and agree to a no deal crash out therefore she has to flog a horse which is not only dead but the funeral has been held and its been cremated already, with the ashes scattered at Aintree.

3 - She knows another vote is the only way out but she wont advocate for it and "own it". Doing it this way she can blame others for the fact that ultimately there will be another referendum.

 


Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 21 May 19 5.11pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Populist seems to be the remoaners insult of the moment having superceded gammon

We'll see on Thursday whether your so called right wing populist has caught the mood of the country and if the results of the election show that an exit on WTO terms is what is wanted then parliament either has to carry out our wishes or else risk a descendant of Guido Fawkes finishing off what his relative failed to do 400 years ago

Edited by Midlands Eagle (21 May 2019 5.04pm)

As the EU elections are a distraction and a waste of time and money they will do no such thing.

Only the highly motivated will bother to turn out so they will tell us nothing and mean even less.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 21 May 19 5.18pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I getting bored with repeating myself while you do your usual dancing around playing with terminology.

Here is a link to a podcast by Sam Harris (no fan of Trump). The podcast is called, 'What Does the Mueller Report Really Say? (with Benjamin Wittes)'.

[Link]

That formed my view as to what is actually actionable. Now unless you have something new to say on the matter go and bore someone else.

Congress don't impeach on what is actionable. They impeach on "high crimes and misdemeanours". The bar for that is much lower and is set by them. They hold a POTUS to account if he strays from the high standards expected and not just on legal culpability.

If that doesn't happen then there is plenty of straws in the wind which suggest Trump will be deep in the brown stuff after he leaves office.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 21 May 19 5.26pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

3 - She knows another vote is the only way out but she wont advocate for it and "own it". Doing it this way she can blame others for the fact that ultimately there will be another referendum.

But this is the narrative that I struggle with. How can you re-run a vote on leaving the EU and still ask people to believe in our democracy?

I actually believe that it would be better for the country for Parliament to just revoke A50. We can then vote in a party with a manifesto promise to start it all off again and our loathing remains focused on politicans.

But a second referendum with Remain as an option? I can only speak for myself but I will not vote/or spoil the ballot paper.. And actively encourage everybody I know to do similar.

And you get a Remain victory. Probably by a huge margin but on a substantially reduced turn out.

Why would that second vote solve anything? I genuinely struggle to get my head around why anybody in their right mind could honestly believe that making us vote again solves a single part of this? All it does it make matters 100 times worse. It destroys us. Brexit does not fade away. It haunts any and everything that happens in the UK.

It scares me. It genuinely does.

A second referendum with a Remain option would be the most catastrophic peace-time event in the UK's history. And I suspect herald the end of the UK in any kind of recognisable form.

Stabbed in the back narratives poison everybody. Including those who wield the knife in the first place.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 May 19 5.26pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Congress don't impeach on what is actionable. They impeach on "high crimes and misdemeanours". The bar for that is much lower and is set by them. They hold a POTUS to account if he strays from the high standards expected and not just on legal culpability.

If that doesn't happen then there is plenty of straws in the wind which suggest Trump will be deep in the brown stuff after he leaves office.

More pointless word play from you and frankly I don't care what happens to Trump after he leaves office.

I'll leave that to the sados to worry about. Stop boring us with Trump stuff on the Brexit thread.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 May 2019 5.27pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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