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Hrolf The Ganger 02 Oct 19 11.53am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle As I have patiently tried to explain you didn't "win". No-one won. The referendum meant we all lost. We lost trust in each other and some lost faith in Parliament. There are no winners or losers in a Parliamentary democracy. This idea that it's settled by a score line, like a game of football, is causing you a lot of anger and angst and until you get over it you are not going to feel any better. I totally agree that the Parliamentary votes to hold the referendum, trigger Article 50 and each Party's undertakings to respect the result created expectations which have not yet been realised. There are though good reasons for that. Reasons which you might not agree with but that Parliament does, and it's their responsibility, not yours or mine. It will move on. Probably at a GE quite soon. Whether it gets sorted out then is an open question. It depends on the Parliament we choose and whether they can come to an agreement. I suspect there is a good chance you will get your way, with the Tories, the DUP and the Brexit Party having enough votes to force a "no deal" exit before they break apart again. Whatever happens it's going to get very messy. All caused by a referendum I didn't want in the first place designed for internal Tory Party politics. Only in the mind of a narrow minded narcissist. In any choice, there will always be positive and negative results. Many are happy to accept the rough with the smooth. You are just too short sighted and dogmatic to accept that.
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Hrolf The Ganger

02 Oct 19 11.53am

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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As I have patiently tried to explain you didn't "win". No-one won. The referendum meant we all lost. We lost trust in each other and some lost faith in Parliament. There are no winners or losers in a Parliamentary democracy. This idea that it's settled by a score line, like a game of football, is causing you a lot of anger and angst and until you get over it you are not going to feel any better.

It will move on. Probably at a GE quite soon. Whether it gets sorted out then is an open question. It depends on the Parliament we choose and whether they can come to an agreement. I suspect there is a good chance you will get your way, with the Tories, the DUP and the Brexit Party having enough votes to force a "no deal" exit before they break apart again. Whatever happens it's going to get very messy.

All caused by a referendum I didn't want in the first place designed for internal Tory Party politics.

Only in the mind of a narrow minded narcissist.

In any choice, there will always be positive and negative results. Many are happy to accept the rough with the smooth. You are just too short sighted and dogmatic to accept that.

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Maine Eagle USA 02 Oct 19 11.54am
Kudos on getting your own thread, Wisbech Eagle Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.
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Maine Eagle

USA 02 Oct 19 11.54am

Kudos on getting your own thread, Wisbech Eagle

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 12.04pm
We are about the hear Johnson deliver the UK's "final offer" to the EU! Which, if the leaks are true, is little more than a bag of wind designed to shift the blame for failure onto them. Leaving the actual "offer" aside though doesn't it demonstrate his total disregard for Parliamentary democracy that he has chosen to deliver this to the Tory Party Conference and not to Parliament? This isn't supposed to be the manifesto for a forthcoming General Election. This is supposed to be the UK's government's proposal on how we will exit the EU in an orderly way. It ought to be put first to Parliament and not to a bunch of Tory activists. I think it demonstrates very clearly that Johnson's real priority is himself and in retaining his position as PM. He has tried to sideline Parliament once and failed. He has lost every vote in the House and is unable to command a majority. Playing party politics at this critical time shows him in his true light and everyone, whatever their political views, ought to condemn that. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 12.04pm

We are about the hear Johnson deliver the UK's "final offer" to the EU! Which, if the leaks are true, is little more than a bag of wind designed to shift the blame for failure onto them.

Leaving the actual "offer" aside though doesn't it demonstrate his total disregard for Parliamentary democracy that he has chosen to deliver this to the Tory Party Conference and not to Parliament?

This isn't supposed to be the manifesto for a forthcoming General Election. This is supposed to be the UK's government's proposal on how we will exit the EU in an orderly way. It ought to be put first to Parliament and not to a bunch of Tory activists.

I think it demonstrates very clearly that Johnson's real priority is himself and in retaining his position as PM. He has tried to sideline Parliament once and failed. He has lost every vote in the House and is unable to command a majority.

Playing party politics at this critical time shows him in his true light and everyone, whatever their political views, ought to condemn that.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 12.12pm
Originally posted by Maine Eagle Kudos on getting your own thread, Wisbech Eagle Thanks. Rather childish though, don't you think? This issue seems rather too serious for silly stunts but there you go. It wasn't my idea. It says much more about who-ever changed it than it does about me. I am just one of many regular contributors. If people don't want to read what I have to say then they can easily pass them by. I do that myself with quite a few. I will just carry on, though it might puzzle any casual readers. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 12.12pm

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

Kudos on getting your own thread, Wisbech Eagle

Thanks.

Rather childish though, don't you think?

This issue seems rather too serious for silly stunts but there you go. It wasn't my idea. It says much more about who-ever changed it than it does about me. I am just one of many regular contributors. If people don't want to read what I have to say then they can easily pass them by. I do that myself with quite a few.

I will just carry on, though it might puzzle any casual readers.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 12.15pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Only in the mind of a narrow minded narcissist. In any choice, there will always be positive and negative results. Many are happy to accept the rough with the smooth. You are just too short sighted and dogmatic to accept that. Not at all. I just believe in the way we actually do things in the UK. Which is via Parliament. That's the only place where positive and negative results end up as laws. Laws change things. Referendums don't. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 12.15pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Only in the mind of a narrow minded narcissist.

In any choice, there will always be positive and negative results. Many are happy to accept the rough with the smooth. You are just too short sighted and dogmatic to accept that.

Not at all.

I just believe in the way we actually do things in the UK.

Which is via Parliament. That's the only place where positive and negative results end up as laws. Laws change things. Referendums don't.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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dannyboy1978 02 Oct 19 12.16pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle As I have patiently tried to explain you didn't "win". No-one won. The referendum meant we all lost. We lost trust in each other and some lost faith in Parliament. There are no winners or losers in a Parliamentary democracy. This idea that it's settled by a score line, like a game of football, is causing you a lot of anger and angst and until you get over it you are not going to feel any better. I totally agree that the Parliamentary votes to hold the referendum, trigger Article 50 and each Party's undertakings to respect the result created expectations which have not yet been realised. There are though good reasons for that. Reasons which you might not agree with but that Parliament does, and it's their responsibility, not yours or mine. It will move on. Probably at a GE quite soon. Whether it gets sorted out then is an open question. It depends on the Parliament we choose and whether they can come to an agreement. I suspect there is a good chance you will get your way, with the Tories, the DUP and the Brexit Party having enough votes to force a "no deal" exit before they break apart again. Whatever happens it's going to get very messy. All caused by a referendum I didn't want in the first place designed for internal Tory Party politics. No, David Cameron said it was our choice no one elses, not even politicians, you didn't watch the video did !! [Link] Edited by dannyboy1978 (02 Oct 2019 12.17pm)
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dannyboy1978

02 Oct 19 12.16pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As I have patiently tried to explain you didn't "win". No-one won. The referendum meant we all lost. We lost trust in each other and some lost faith in Parliament. There are no winners or losers in a Parliamentary democracy. This idea that it's settled by a score line, like a game of football, is causing you a lot of anger and angst and until you get over it you are not going to feel any better.

I totally agree that the Parliamentary votes to hold the referendum, trigger Article 50 and each Party's undertakings to respect the result created expectations which have not yet been realised. There are though good reasons for that. Reasons which you might not agree with but that Parliament does, and it's their responsibility, not yours or mine.

It will move on. Probably at a GE quite soon. Whether it gets sorted out then is an open question. It depends on the Parliament we choose and whether they can come to an agreement. I suspect there is a good chance you will get your way, with the Tories, the DUP and the Brexit Party having enough votes to force a "no deal" exit before they break apart again. Whatever happens it's going to get very messy.

All caused by a referendum I didn't want in the first place designed for internal Tory Party politics.

No, David Cameron said it was our choice no one elses, not even politicians, you didn't watch the video did !!
[Link]

Edited by dannyboy1978 (02 Oct 2019 12.17pm)

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Matov 02 Oct 19 12.43pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle As I have patiently tried to explain you didn't "win". Yes my side DID win. How many more times? There was a vote. Two options. Leave or Remain. And Leave obtained more votes. That is how you win a vote. This really is not rocket science and no matter how much you want to try and cloud the issue behind hyperbolic nonsense, it matters not a jot. The result on June 23rd was a victory for those of us who wish for the UK to leave the EU. Now that might well be scuppered by Parliament and they will suffer the wrath accordingly but this ludicrous notion that somehow we have to make an accommodation with Remainers is beyond derision. If this vote had been the other way around then the Remain side would have rubbed our noses in it. Would have proclaimed the numbers of new jobs created as being solely down to us not voting to jump off the cliff-edge and generally proclaiming the far-sighted wisdom of the 'Experts' behind the Project Fear BS. And whilst I cannot speak for all Leavers, I would have swallowed it all. Respecting the vote and believing that there was nothing to be gained anymore by pushing the point. We wanted a vote and it was lost. C'est la vie. That is how democracy works. Had our chance and was found wanting. It happens. But more fool me right for believing the Remain side felt themselves bound by the same conventions. Shame on you and anybody else who believes that Remain should still even be up for discussion, let alone cheering on a Parliament seemingly intent on blocking our exit. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

02 Oct 19 12.43pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As I have patiently tried to explain you didn't "win".

Yes my side DID win. How many more times? There was a vote. Two options. Leave or Remain. And Leave obtained more votes. That is how you win a vote. This really is not rocket science and no matter how much you want to try and cloud the issue behind hyperbolic nonsense, it matters not a jot.

The result on June 23rd was a victory for those of us who wish for the UK to leave the EU.

Now that might well be scuppered by Parliament and they will suffer the wrath accordingly but this ludicrous notion that somehow we have to make an accommodation with Remainers is beyond derision.

If this vote had been the other way around then the Remain side would have rubbed our noses in it. Would have proclaimed the numbers of new jobs created as being solely down to us not voting to jump off the cliff-edge and generally proclaiming the far-sighted wisdom of the 'Experts' behind the Project Fear BS.

And whilst I cannot speak for all Leavers, I would have swallowed it all. Respecting the vote and believing that there was nothing to be gained anymore by pushing the point. We wanted a vote and it was lost. C'est la vie. That is how democracy works. Had our chance and was found wanting. It happens.

But more fool me right for believing the Remain side felt themselves bound by the same conventions. Shame on you and anybody else who believes that Remain should still even be up for discussion, let alone cheering on a Parliament seemingly intent on blocking our exit.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 12.58pm
Originally posted by dannyboy1978 No, David Cameron said it was our choice no one elses, not even politicians, you didn't watch the video did !! [Link] Edited by dannyboy1978 (02 Oct 2019 12.17pm) Of course I watched it. I have seen that speech before. How could I comment unless I did? I know what he said. It's what politicians say to get your votes all the time. They though also change their minds all the time, as we all do. As Macmillan was reported to have said when asked what was most likely to knock governments off course, "Events, dear boy, events". For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 12.58pm

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

No, David Cameron said it was our choice no one elses, not even politicians, you didn't watch the video did !!
[Link]

Edited by dannyboy1978 (02 Oct 2019 12.17pm)

Of course I watched it. I have seen that speech before.

How could I comment unless I did?

I know what he said. It's what politicians say to get your votes all the time. They though also change their minds all the time, as we all do.

As Macmillan was reported to have said when asked what was most likely to knock governments off course, "Events, dear boy, events".

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Midlands Eagle 02 Oct 19 1.07pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle We are about the hear Johnson deliver the UK's "final offer" to the EU! Which, if the leaks are true, is little more than a bag of wind designed to shift the blame for failure onto them. Leaving the actual "offer" aside though doesn't it demonstrate his total disregard for Parliamentary democracy that he has chosen to deliver this to the Tory Party Conference and not to Parliament? This isn't supposed to be the manifesto for a forthcoming General Election. This is supposed to be the UK's government's proposal on how we will exit the EU in an orderly way. It ought to be put first to Parliament and not to a bunch of Tory activists. I think it demonstrates very clearly that Johnson's real priority is himself and in retaining his position as PM. He has tried to sideline Parliament once and failed. He has lost every vote in the House and is unable to command a majority. Playing party politics at this critical time shows him in his true light and everyone, whatever their political views, ought to condemn that. A nice unbiased rant from you which yet again turns out to be completely untrue
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Midlands Eagle

02 Oct 19 1.07pm

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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

We are about the hear Johnson deliver the UK's "final offer" to the EU! Which, if the leaks are true, is little more than a bag of wind designed to shift the blame for failure onto them.

Leaving the actual "offer" aside though doesn't it demonstrate his total disregard for Parliamentary democracy that he has chosen to deliver this to the Tory Party Conference and not to Parliament?

Playing party politics at this critical time shows him in his true light and everyone, whatever their political views, ought to condemn that.

A nice unbiased rant from you which yet again turns out to be completely untrue

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Midlands Eagle 02 Oct 19 1.09pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Of course I watched it. I have seen that speech before. How could I comment unless I did? You commented on Boris Johnson's speech to conference without actually having seen it and posted a load of bollox as a result
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Midlands Eagle

02 Oct 19 1.09pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Of course I watched it. I have seen that speech before.

How could I comment unless I did?

You commented on Boris Johnson's speech to conference without actually having seen it and posted a load of bollox as a result

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cpfc_chap koh samui 02 Oct 19 1.16pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle You commented on Boris Johnson's speech to conference without actually having seen it and posted a load of bollox as a result He's just an old cantankerous fool! We really need and ignore button for him and his repetitive posts!
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cpfc_chap