The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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| steve1984 12 Dec 18 12.57pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You support easy immigration for one as in freedom of movement and the disregard for nationalism for two....both would be unpopular positions in Japan ....indeed you make a point of talking about your foreign wife gaining a passport and you being happy that she would support remain.....So I think the word embrace for you supporting policies they reject...whilst they also built up a more successful economy was fair enough.....especially considering your comments last night. I don't support freedom of movement under all circumstances. Your opinion and that of others proves that lots of UK citizens are unable and / or unwilling to accept it. I'm not blind to that. Personally I would be cautious about trying to draw parallels between Japan and the UK. You couldn't get two more different advanced industrial societies. There may be some worthwhile parallels but like I said I have insufficient knowledge or confidence to identify them. My wife's voting intentions are her business. I shouldn't have shared them. My bad. As of yet I'm still hoping that you might share more of your thoughts about my comments from last night. All I described was the nature of competition and the importance of negotiating leverage provided by economic clout in a modern, global, free market, capitalist system. I don't embrace that system. I'm just familiar with it.
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 Mapletree  Croydon 12 Dec 18 12.58pm |
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Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE
Get her out and let's have a primeminister that believes in Brexit! A remainer should never have been put in charge. The gangster ring of the EU might actually take us seriously instead of our constant capitulation. I keep hearing this Absolutely no proof behind the assertion. Personally I don't think the EU would change its stance based upon the nature of the individual it negotiates with. It has been robustly clear and focused throughout, to its considerable credit considering it is a federation of 27 very different countries. It has little room for manoeuvre, it won't want any copy cat actions. It is probably also clear that we are in this mess just as much due to EU intransigence as internal politics. I wonder if there is room for change in order to encourage the UK to reverse Article 50.
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| Stirlingsays Online 12 Dec 18 1.04pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
I keep hearing this Absolutely no proof behind the assertion. Personally I don't think the EU would change its stance based upon the nature of the individual it negotiates with. It has been robustly clear and focused throughout, to its considerable credit considering it is a federation of 27 very different countries. It has little room for manoeuvre, it won't want any copy cat actions. It is probably also clear that we are in this mess just as much due to EU intransigence as internal politics. I wonder if there is room for change in order to encourage the UK to reverse Article 50. That unity will break once it's clear a 'no deal' is what their positioning will result in. But we shouldn't be using that position for bargaining, we should be deadly serious about it. They want to punish us.....Ok, well they will 'hurt' as well.....What Davies was saying was the correct way and being overriden by May was a disaster. Weak people create weak positions. A 'no deal' isn't what I wanted but I'd prefer it to this. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Dec 2018 1.05pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Mapletree Croydon 12 Dec 18 1.07pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Dec 2018 12.39pm) How interesting. I didn't have you down as someone that would support centralist intervention policies. Nor indeed Keiretsu or Shunto. Remember, for example, that MITI attempted to ban Honda from producing cars to avoid excessive competition. Presumably you think that is a good thing.
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| Mapletree Croydon 12 Dec 18 1.09pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
That unity will break once it's clear a 'no deal' is what their positioning will result in. But we shouldn't be using that position for bargaining, we should be deadly serious about it. They want to punish us.....Ok, well they will 'hurt' as well.....What Davies was saying was the correct way and being overriden by May was a disaster. Weak people create weak positions. A 'no deal' isn't what I wanted but I'd prefer it to this. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Dec 2018 1.05pm) Yes, let's take loads of pain just to 'get back' at those EU Johnnies. Noses and faces springs to mind and has throughout. We are not using our brains. This is just populist BS working on emotion. We will regret it short term, medium term and long term. And that is so self-evident yet many people simply bury their heads.
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Pussay Patrol  12 Dec 18 1.15pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Dec 2018 12.39pm) Just as I thought, an armchair know it all
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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| Stirlingsays Online 12 Dec 18 1.16pm |
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Originally posted by steve1984
I don't support freedom of movement under all circumstances. Your opinion and that of others proves that lots of UK citizens are unable and / or unwilling to accept it. I'm not blind to that. Well personally while I'd control the numbers I'm not wholly against European immigration myself. It's more about the type of person and how many of them. Originally posted by steve1984
Personally I would be cautious about trying to draw parallels between Japan and the UK. You couldn't get two more different advanced industrial societies. There may be some worthwhile parallels but like I said I have insufficient knowledge or confidence to identify them. That's fair enough....but I like using Japan as an example....what can I say...island nation, hard working, nationalistic with a small 'n'.....I think it's created a great society for itself and its future children....and then I look at us. Originally posted by steve1984
My wife's voting intentions are her business. I shouldn't have shared them. My bad. She's a minority...her voting intentions are hardly surprising. Originally posted by steve1984
As of yet I'm still hoping that you might share more of your thoughts about my comments from last night. All I described was the nature of competition and the importance of negotiating leverage provided by economic clout in a modern, global, free market, capitalist system. I don't embrace that system. I'm just familiar with it. Edited by steve1984 (12 Dec 2018 12.59pm) I thought I'd given you my thoughts on it. I guess....if we get 'no deal'....in about ten years some sort of verdict can be made. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Dec 2018 1.17pm)
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| Stirlingsays Online 12 Dec 18 1.20pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Yes, let's take loads of pain just to 'get back' at those EU Johnnies. Noses and faces springs to mind and has throughout. We are not using our brains. This is just populist BS working on emotion. We will regret it short term, medium term and long term. And that is so self-evident yet many people simply bury their heads.
You might be the 'turn the other cheek' type of chap but I'm just not. I don't get mad, I get even.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays Online 12 Dec 18 1.23pm |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
Just as I thought, an armchair know it all Come now....you didn't have a thought....Let's not get too ambitious.....baby steps PP....baby steps. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Dec 2018 1.23pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays Online 12 Dec 18 1.30pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
How interesting. I didn't have you down as someone that would support centralist intervention policies. Nor indeed Keiretsu or Shunto. Remember, for example, that MITI attempted to ban Honda from producing cars to avoid excessive competition. Presumably you think that is a good thing.
Their economic policy decisions might be related but it's a bit of a leap to say that because I admire Japan that it means 'I support that' or 'I support this'. Each situation on its own terms. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Dec 2018 1.31pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Mapletree Croydon 12 Dec 18 1.35pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Their economic policy decisions might be related but it's a bit of a leap to say that because I admire Japan that it means 'I support that' or 'I support this'. Each situation on its own terms. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Dec 2018 1.31pm) OK, at this point I have to cry BS. One of the main reasons for the homogeneity of Japan is its invisible trade barriers. If you don't understand Keiretsu or Shunto and haven't worked there (I have by the way) then you don't 'get' it.
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| Stirlingsays Online 12 Dec 18 1.45pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
OK, at this point I have to cry BS. One of the main reasons for the homogeneity of Japan is its invisible trade barriers. If you don't understand Keiretsu or Shunto and haven't worked there (I have by the way) then you don't 'get' it. Nope, the main reason for the homogeneity of Japan is in its deliberate internal national policy. Its immigration and settlement policy is very specific. That's from my knowledge of the history of Japan.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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