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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 13 Oct 19 4.01pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If no deal was the choice then of course it would be accepted, both by me and I think by Parliament too.

I don't though think that is the likely outcome. I think a "deal" which a new Parliament has negotiated and which meets all the red lines of the EU and protects us too, would romp home by a very large margin. Then a disconsolate Farage would be trotting home on three legs and ready for the knackers yard, and the ERG left with no-where to go.

Why have a remain option then.
That horse has run and lost.
Deal or no deal.
Binary choice as you say.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 13 Oct 19 4.02pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If no deal was the choice then of course it would be accepted, both by me and I think by Parliament too.

I don't though think that is the likely outcome. I think a "deal" which a new Parliament has negotiated and which meets all the red lines of the EU and protects us too, would romp home by a very large margin. Then a disconsolate Farage would be trotting home on three legs and ready for the knackers yard, and the ERG left with no-where to go.

The more likely outcome there is that any party that foists a poor deal onto the people would be destroyed at the polls and probably put Brexit right back on the agenda. The EU already ruled out any kind of Norway deal and there is little point in paying the same amount for a trade deal as Britain pays at the moment, without having any say or control over standards, customs or indeed, movement. What I'm seeing here is one of those cake and eat it deals - which just is not going to happen- which is pie in the sky.
The EU are following the narrative of naughty Britain needs to be punished for its intransigence and there is little sign that they will change. Without a huge pay-off of course. The red lines of the EU are totally at odds with the UK's red lines - hence the complete inability for any acceptable deal to be reached - for the people that is. Be careful when thinking that politicians are going to deliver some kind of decent and acceptable deal.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 13 Oct 19 4.08pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

All that MUST happen is for a deal to be made with the EU that Parliament as a whole can approve. Until something is presented and thoroughly evaluated we won't know if that is possible but it looks almost impossible to me by the deadline. No-one's doing any sabotage. They are doing their jobs.

I think that is a quite deliberate tactic by Johnson to give Parliament no time for the thorough scrutiny needed, leaving them no option other than to refuse to accept it. It has nothing at all to do with "Remainers" in Parliament or outside, most of whom will accept a "deal" that protects our best interests but won't if it harms them. Many "Leavers" voted down Mrs May's deal and as the rumours are that this one has aspects that are worse then how they will respond is as yet unknown.

You cannot be serious.

The trouble is that no one will believe the majority of Remainers if they don't support a deal and then claim that it is because of anything other than party politics.
There is every reason to doubt their motives and every reason to pass a deal if it is close to reasonable.
Unless of course, you prefer no deal.

What cannot happen under any cirumstances is no Brexit.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 13 Oct 19 4.25pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Government of National Unity

Much talk about building a consensus in Parliament amongst the opposition. They feel the Tories are divided and all over the place on Brexit.

So how is the formation of the National unity government going, well they've been promising it would happen for the last couple of months. Remember The Tories are all over the place and only the opposition parties can save us.

Lib Dems - Will not serve if Corbyn is PM they also want to abolish Brexit.

SNP - Sturgeon has told Corbyn to forget even calling unless she gets her Indy2ref they of course don't want Brexit.

Labour - Will only accept Corbyn as PM anything else is unacceptable. As for their Brexit policy, Corbyn has "his left leg in and his left leg out". Starmer has said we want a referendum Corbyn has said we don't Labour can't even agree amongst themselves let along with the other parties.

Glad to see that the rest of them are so united and willing to compromise.

Meanwhile I look forward to November 5.

Update
I forgot to add how many times have you heard opposition MPs claim that the Tories are putting petty party politics before the national interest? Hmmm that's the smell of hypocrisy if you were wondering.


Edited by Badger11 (13 Oct 2019 4.31pm)

 


One more point

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 13 Oct 19 6.03pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Why have a remain option then.
That horse has run and lost.
Deal or no deal.
Binary choice as you say.

Because of the changed circumstances in which so many know so much more. In 2016 idea of an exit without a properly negotiated transitional arrangement wasn't even on the horizon, let alone the table.

We haven't left yet, so as we have a chance to check how people feel about it now, and not about how they felt about then, some think we should. If you really believe in the will of the people being paramount then what have you to be worried about? I want Parliament to decide themselves but it seems that they may well decide to ask us all again.

Whether we have a 3 choice referendum, or one just about how we leave, my money would all be on a "deal" being chosen, provided it is one that Parliament can agree upon, and that doesn't look to be very likely to happen yet.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 13 Oct 19 6.17pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Because of the changed circumstances in which so many know so much more. In 2016 idea of an exit without a properly negotiated transitional arrangement wasn't even on the horizon, let alone the table.

We haven't left yet, so as we have a chance to check how people feel about it now, and not about how they felt about then, some think we should. If you really believe in the will of the people being paramount then what have you to be worried about? I want Parliament to decide themselves but it seems that they may well decide to ask us all again.

Whether we have a 3 choice referendum, or one just about how we leave, my money would all be on a "deal" being chosen, provided it is one that Parliament can agree upon, and that doesn't look to be very likely to happen yet.

The will of the people being paramount.
It isnt though.
It's the will of less people.

 

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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 13 Oct 19 6.49pm Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Because of the changed circumstances in which so many know so much more. In 2016 idea of an exit without a properly negotiated transitional arrangement wasn't even on the horizon, let alone the table.

We haven't left yet, so as we have a chance to check how people feel about it now, and not about how they felt about then, some think we should. If you really believe in the will of the people being paramount then what have you to be worried about? I want Parliament to decide themselves but it seems that they may well decide to ask us all again.

Whether we have a 3 choice referendum, or one just about how we leave, my money would all be on a "deal" being chosen, provided it is one that Parliament can agree upon, and that doesn't look to be very likely to happen yet.

You can't possibly have a referendum with 3 choices, because the two 'leave' options would dilute each other, therefore 'remain' could win with as little as 34%.

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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View palace_in_frogland's Profile palace_in_frogland Flag In a broken dream 13 Oct 19 7.07pm Send a Private Message to palace_in_frogland Add palace_in_frogland as a friend

Originally posted by YT

You can't possibly have a referendum with 3 choices, because the two 'leave' options would dilute each other, therefore 'remain' could win with as little as 34%.

Oh don't start him off again FFS - "single transferable vote bla bla bla"

zzzzzz

 

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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 13 Oct 19 7.10pm Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by palace_in_frogland

Oh don't start him off again FFS - "single transferable vote bla bla bla"

zzzzzz

Ah yes...that voting system that was rejected in another referendum!

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 13 Oct 19 7.59pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by YT

You can't possibly have a referendum with 3 choices, because the two 'leave' options would dilute each other, therefore 'remain' could win with as little as 34%.

Perfectly acceptable in some people's world

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 13 Oct 19 8.38pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

The more likely outcome there is that any party that foists a poor deal onto the people would be destroyed at the polls and probably put Brexit right back on the agenda. The EU already ruled out any kind of Norway deal and there is little point in paying the same amount for a trade deal as Britain pays at the moment, without having any say or control over standards, customs or indeed, movement. What I'm seeing here is one of those cake and eat it deals - which just is not going to happen- which is pie in the sky.
The EU are following the narrative of naughty Britain needs to be punished for its intransigence and there is little sign that they will change. Without a huge pay-off of course. The red lines of the EU are totally at odds with the UK's red lines - hence the complete inability for any acceptable deal to be reached - for the people that is. Be careful when thinking that politicians are going to deliver some kind of decent and acceptable deal.

When push comes to shove they will find a way, in my opinion a modified version of the May deal, including a backstop but with additional protections for worker's rights etc, that the opposition want. I don't see any "punishment" agenda by the EU although I could understand if that was partly a motive. I just don't see them them actually doing it. I see plenty of exasperation alongside bucket loads of patience.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 13 Oct 19 8.54pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

You do realise that if this was a straight forward election for say two parties.
Leave 'won' 270 voting areas and remain 129.
Funny old game.

 

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