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April 28 2024 6.14pm

The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 27 Feb 20 1.44pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly


Well thought posts by Mat and Stirling. I tend to agree with the analysis, but the EU also has to take into account that the UK should not be seen leaving the EU as beneficial.
That has the potential to push other members into Referendums on whether to leave. Then the house of cards is on very shaky ground.
At the moment BJ is on the front foot, and rightly so. A No-Deal will bvgger a lot of British firms, but equally BJ is in a position of negotiating strength.
The EU has a weak hand , so its only real powers are to make the negotiations as protracted and painful as possible.
I suppose what it will come down to is who has the most to lose.

It doesnt really matter if we are in a better position out of the EU.
That was the idea.
Other countries dont have our GDP so they possibly wouldn't manage to go it alone.
Our market spends and sells loads so in europe we are a benefit to all.

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 28 Feb 20 9.51am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly


but the EU also has to take into account that the UK should not be seen leaving the EU as beneficial.
That has the potential to push other members into Referendums on whether to leave.


Absolutely. Brussels must want to shield its eyes every time it looks over its shoulder. France is in virtual meltdown with state-sanctioned Police brutality on a scale that is almost beyond belief (imagine if this level of unrest was taking place every week in the US against Trump. We would have it 24/7 news coverage here in the Uk), in Italy the march of Salvini and the rise of the AfD in Germany. Add in rioting currently breaking out on Greek Islands sick to death of being dumping grounds for migrants and with populist movements gaining traction all over and it must make them want to weep.

Throw in this coronavirus outbreak along with Turkey making noises about opening the illegal migrant flood-gates once more and 2020 is not looking rosy for Brussels.

Economic sensibilities should suggest a deal can be done but I suspect Brussels do not want one. This is all about them acting the tough guy.

Waste of time even talking to them. The UK should be preparing for a Granite Brexit as the default.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 28 Feb 20 10.19am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Matov


Absolutely. Brussels must want to shield its eyes every time it looks over its shoulder. France is in virtual meltdown with state-sanctioned Police brutality on a scale that is almost beyond belief (imagine if this level of unrest was taking place every week in the US against Trump. We would have it 24/7 news coverage here in the Uk), in Italy the march of Salvini and the rise of the AfD in Germany. Add in rioting currently breaking out on Greek Islands sick to death of being dumping grounds for migrants and with populist movements gaining traction all over and it must make them want to weep.

Throw in this coronavirus outbreak along with Turkey making noises about opening the illegal migrant flood-gates once more and 2020 is not looking rosy for Brussels.

Economic sensibilities should suggest a deal can be done but I suspect Brussels do not want one. This is all about them acting the tough guy.

Waste of time even talking to them. The UK should be preparing for a Granite Brexit as the default.


The pro EU camp will never learn. I suspect you are right that the EU still wants to punish us and is afraid if we get a good deal it will lead to the breakup of the EU. However there hardline may end up doing exactly what they don't want.

Just a guess on my part but imagine 2/3 years down the road of a no deal Brexit:

- UK doing okay
- Business / Farmers / Fishermen across the EU are complaining that sales have dropped to one of their biggest export market (UK) because of Word Trade Tariffs and UK free trade agreements with other countries.
- Natives get restless, riots and demonstrations across Europe due to the economy.
- Populists / Nationalist doing well in elections
- German voters start complaining about the cost of being the EU paymaster now the UK has left.
- One of Greece / Italy / Spain exit the Euro to save their economy after German Chancellor refuses further bailout fearful of reaction from German voters.
- One or more countries call a Brexit style referendum which the leavers win.
- To avoid a complete breakup the EU becomes a two tier organisation with the inner tier made up of the industrialised Northern Europe countries.
- Talks start with the UK about a free trade deal or possible affiliate membership of the new revamped EU.

On the other hand the EU could just give us a good deal, the bureaucrats and politicians will grumble but the UK getting a good deal is not a burning issue with the EU voters. The EU gets over it and moves on with it's happy clappy plans.

Edited by Badger11 (28 Feb 2020 10.20am)

 


One more point

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View mezzer's Profile mezzer Flag Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 28 Feb 20 11.20am Send a Private Message to mezzer Add mezzer as a friend

The EU is under huge threat of a break up if the effects of the coronavirus continue much longer.

The last meaningful General Elections (Germany, France, Holland and Austria) all occurred in 2017 and the Nationalist parties were largely soundly beaten. However, they were, and remain, quite strong opposition parties.

History shows that the incumbent government, of any colour or political persuasion, gets blamed by the electorate for recessions. If this current crisis continues much longer, bearing in mind banks and governments can't find a cure by simply reducing interest rates (especially when, in most cases, they're already negative or close to negative) then the world is heading towards a global recession, quite possibly at least as bad as the one that followed the Financial Crisis in 2008.

And the next round of European elections will arrive slap bang into, or soon after it. Who is in opposition to step forward? Eurosceptic parties.

It's also why any talk of the Trade War has disappeared quicker than a Benteke scoring spree. Trump needs to avoid a recession this year to get re-elected, but the shorter timeframe is in his favour. It's not in the EU's.

So, ironically, the beginning of the end for the EU may be caused, not by Brexit, but by a strange bug from inland China that was able to spread worldwide through a combination of globalisation, open borders, and rank bad luck and timing.

 


Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 28 Feb 20 11.24am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by mezzer

The EU is under huge threat of a break up if the effects of the coronavirus continue much longer.

The last meaningful General Elections (Germany, France, Holland and Austria) all occurred in 2017 and the Nationalist parties were largely soundly beaten. However, they were, and remain, quite strong opposition parties.

History shows that the incumbent government, of any colour or political persuasion, gets blamed by the electorate for recessions. If this current crisis continues much longer, bearing in mind banks and governments can't find a cure by simply reducing interest rates (especially when, in most cases, they're already negative or close to negative) then the world is heading towards a global recession, quite possibly at least as bad as the one that followed the Financial Crisis in 2008.

And the next round of European elections will arrive slap bang into, or soon after it. Who is in opposition to step forward? Eurosceptic parties.

It's also why any talk of the Trade War has disappeared quicker than a Benteke scoring spree. Trump needs to avoid a recession this year to get re-elected, but the shorter timeframe is in his favour. It's not in the EU's.

So, ironically, the beginning of the end for the EU may be caused, not by Brexit, but by a strange bug from inland China that was able to spread worldwide through a combination of globalisation, open borders, and rank bad luck and timing.

Last night the European Banking Federation issued a plea to the EU not to take a hardline with the UK.

The Europeans hate it but London is the centre for business to raise finance in Europe and putting restrictions on that will hurt the City but also businesses in the EU.

 


One more point

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 28 Feb 20 11.55am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by mezzer

The EU is under huge threat of a break up if the effects of the coronavirus continue much longer.

The last meaningful General Elections (Germany, France, Holland and Austria) all occurred in 2017 and the Nationalist parties were largely soundly beaten. However, they were, and remain, quite strong opposition parties.

History shows that the incumbent government, of any colour or political persuasion, gets blamed by the electorate for recessions. If this current crisis continues much longer, bearing in mind banks and governments can't find a cure by simply reducing interest rates (especially when, in most cases, they're already negative or close to negative) then the world is heading towards a global recession, quite possibly at least as bad as the one that followed the Financial Crisis in 2008.

And the next round of European elections will arrive slap bang into, or soon after it. Who is in opposition to step forward? Eurosceptic parties.

It's also why any talk of the Trade War has disappeared quicker than a Benteke scoring spree. Trump needs to avoid a recession this year to get re-elected, but the shorter timeframe is in his favour. It's not in the EU's.

So, ironically, the beginning of the end for the EU may be caused, not by Brexit, but by a strange bug from inland China that was able to spread worldwide through a combination of globalisation, open borders, and rank bad luck and timing.

Karma!
What a bitch.

 

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.TUX. Flag 28 Feb 20 12.09pm

Originally posted by mezzer

The EU is under huge threat of a break up if the effects of the coronavirus continue much longer.

The last meaningful General Elections (Germany, France, Holland and Austria) all occurred in 2017 and the Nationalist parties were largely soundly beaten. However, they were, and remain, quite strong opposition parties.

History shows that the incumbent government, of any colour or political persuasion, gets blamed by the electorate for recessions. If this current crisis continues much longer, bearing in mind banks and governments can't find a cure by simply reducing interest rates (especially when, in most cases, they're already negative or close to negative) then the world is heading towards a global recession, quite possibly at least as bad as the one that followed the Financial Crisis in 2008.

And the next round of European elections will arrive slap bang into, or soon after it. Who is in opposition to step forward? Eurosceptic parties.

It's also why any talk of the Trade War has disappeared quicker than a Benteke scoring spree. Trump needs to avoid a recession this year to get re-elected, but the shorter timeframe is in his favour. It's not in the EU's.

So, ironically, the beginning of the end for the EU may be caused, not by Brexit, but by a strange bug from inland China that was able to spread worldwide through a combination of globalisation, open borders, and rank bad luck and timing.

I agree with the sentiment but it'll be far worse than '08 due to the fact that the debt is far far greater. There is no other conclusion.

The fiat based system died in '08. The same system has been (wrongly) kept afloat ever since through financial engineering favouring those who caused the problem and cost-cutting (austerity) for the innocent.
Last September the system died again. On the 17th of that month The Fed started pumping billions upon billions to once again keep an illiquid global banking system afloat.
We now face a global pandemic, an economic nemesis. How convenient.
Just when a scape-goat is needed, da daaa, one turns up.



 


Buy Litecoin.

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 28 Feb 20 4.21pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

The structure of the talks between UK and the EU will be 11 simultaneous meetings covering key areas.

[Link]

What I found interesting was that the EU wanted to include foreign policy and defence, and the UK declined and quite right. Have they learned nothing?

The EU is overreaching itself we have NATO for European defence and our foreign policy may well coincide with the EU aims but that is a matter for the UK government we are not their lapdogs.

Edited by Badger11 (28 Feb 2020 4.22pm)

 


One more point

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View corkery's Profile corkery Flag Cork City 28 Feb 20 5.11pm Send a Private Message to corkery Add corkery as a friend

Another surge of refugees and illegal immigrants heading for Bulgaria and Greece. If they don't do something urgently about this surge then members will ignore EU directives.

 


We'll never die

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 28 Feb 20 5.41pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by corkery

Another surge of refugees and illegal immigrants heading for Bulgaria and Greece. If they don't do something urgently about this surge then members will ignore EU directives.

I assume you are referring to this.

[Link]

I'm sure the EU countries will be very helpful to the refugees "The UK is that way"

Edited by Badger11 (28 Feb 2020 5.42pm)

 


One more point

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 01 Mar 20 9.53pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Greece has stopped processing refuges.
10k at the border and violence kicking off.
The EU and open borders isnt going that well.
Brexit could be a defining moment in our history.
I mean really defining.
The english channel helps as well.

 

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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Flag 02 Mar 20 7.15am Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Greece has stopped processing refuges.
10k at the border and violence kicking off.
The EU and open borders isnt going that well.
Brexit could be a defining moment in our history.
I mean really defining.
The english channel helps as well.

Farage was right,
[Link]

 

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