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May 21 2024 1.43am

Stadium Redevelopment

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 31 May 17 6.02pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by bexleydave

As we seem to be having difficulty funding the renewal of the Main Stand, the idea of starting work on all four stands, which is what would be involved in shifting the pitch, seems...well...a tad unlikely. Plus we're spending this summer on improving the volume of seating and access for the disabled, which suggests to me that the pitch won't be going anywhere.


I suppose my point really was that if both long stands need doing (and I think we all agree that they do) and if simply building a new, bigger main stand is hamstrung by the Sainsburys ownership issue and the proximity of new housing, a different approach might work.

Whether the club did it all in one go or not would have to be decided. The AW could be demolished and rebuilt in isolation behind a hoarding while we play in a three stand ground. Then we move the pitch over in the summer, open the new AW, close the old main stand and work on that behind a hoarding while continuing to play in a three stand ground. We did that for a year when the Holmesdale was built. Not ideal, but might work.

 

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View Eagleshavelanded's Profile Eagleshavelanded Flag Tooting 02 Jun 17 3.18pm Send a Private Message to Eagleshavelanded Add Eagleshavelanded as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Give it 2 seasons and we can move to Wembley whilst the works go on, not ideal but a solution to the logistical elements.

Financial viability is another matter...however, I recall the American owners having deep enough pockets.

 


Ideas from outside the box for your property finance needs [Link]

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View bexleydave's Profile bexleydave Flag Barnehurst 02 Jun 17 3.28pm Send a Private Message to bexleydave Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add bexleydave as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Eagleshavelanded

Give it 2 seasons and we can move to Wembley whilst the works go on, not ideal but a solution to the logistical elements.

Financial viability is another matter...however, I recall the American owners having deep enough pockets.


They're investors, looking for a return on their cash. They aren't Tony Bloom's looking for a vanity project and happy to keep throwing in cash. There isn't going to be a major refurbishment because we quite simply cannot afford it on our income stream and even anything significant on the Main Stand is looking increasingly unlikely anytime soon.

 


Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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View tillysosser's Profile tillysosser Flag far far away 06 Jun 17 11.06am Send a Private Message to tillysosser Add tillysosser as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

reminds me to much of a grand stand you see at the horse races

not to keen on this my self

[Link]

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

I work in planning, and many years ago wrote a piece for one of the fanzines about the various obstacles the club would face when it came to redevelopment of each of the four stands.

It seemed to me at the time that the main problem for the Main stand was the close proximity of the houses at Wooderson Close (the ones near the corner between the main stand and the Holmesdale). This led to planning permission being granted way back in the mid 1990s for a new main stand to mirror the Holmesdale, but for that stand to only come as far as the edge of the penalty area, so as to leave light and view for those houses.

What we now also know is that whatever plan the club currently has seems to require some of the carpark land owned by Sainsburys, and that they are pushing for a big price.

The Arthur is backed by houses, which may be a problem if the club wanted to go 2 tiers in that location, though they were allowed on the Holmesdale, so its worth a go.

Obviously there isn’t any land behind the Whitehorse stand that the club own, but there may be potential to build over Sainsburys to add a second tier to that stand, though of course Sainsburys would have to agree, and there may be issues with the proximity to the rear windows on the houses facing Whitehorse lane.

Looking at it now, I would think there remains a fair chance of redevelopment, but the club perhaps needs to think outside the box a bit, especially to get over the Sainsburys land ownership issues.

A few people have pointed out that whilst in the 1990s it would have been unthinkable that the club could afford to buy the houses in Wooderson Close just to knock them down, the current TV money in the EPL might make this feasible now, and may be a solution to that problem. That’s probably true financially, but you need planning permission to demolish houses even if you own them, and given the chronic shortage the Council would at least require that the club replace them. I can’t see where this could happen while we don’t own the carpark land, and it seems to me we need a design which doesn’t add bulk and mass to that corner of the ground.

If you look at an aerial photo of the ground you can see that the footprint of the Arthur is literally twice the size of the main stand.

The Holmesdale stand has two tiers, but the top one does not overhang the bottom one, which means that the whole stand takes up a lot of room.

If the club goes for a design whereby the top tier mostly overlaps the bottom one, it would free up space, and open up a lot of options. This link gives some examples of cantilevered upper triers:

[Link]

If CPFC were able to erect a two tier stand in place of the current Arthur, but only use up half the floor area by getting the top tier to overlap the bottom one, it would make it far more likely that the Council would accept it, as it would be further from the houses on Park Road. Alternatively, and even more interestingly, the club could potentially build a two or three tier stand in place of the Arthur to the same height as the Holmesdale, but move it further away from the pitch by 10/15 metres or so.

The Main stand could then be rebuilt to the same design, but built 10/15 metres further towards the Arthur. Effectively we could move the pitch 10/15 metres further towards Park Road, moving the Main stand further from the houses on Wooderson Close. We would need to extend the sides of the current Holmesdale and Whitehorse stands by 10 metres or so, and remove the parts of those stands closest to the Main stand, which is a big job in itself, but not as big as building new stands, as the bulk of those structures could remain.

I have attached a sketch to show what I mean. We could keep the roof low, flat, and tight to the stands so as to further reduce the height of the stands and improve the noise. I would do this new roof as one structure across the Holmesdale and the two new stands.

None of this is simple, but it seems a possible solution to the problem the Chairman is finding, which is that we are beholden to Sainsburys at present.

 

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 06 Jun 17 11.30am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by bexleydave


They're investors, looking for a return on their cash. They aren't Tony Bloom's looking for a vanity project and happy to keep throwing in cash. There isn't going to be a major refurbishment because we quite simply cannot afford it on our income stream and even anything significant on the Main Stand is looking increasingly unlikely anytime soon.

We can. Easily. It's the outgoings that are the problem.

 


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View bexleydave's Profile bexleydave Flag Barnehurst 06 Jun 17 11.35am Send a Private Message to bexleydave Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add bexleydave as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Kermit8

We can. Easily. It's the outgoings that are the problem.


So what's your big idea then; this should be good.

 


Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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View Username's Profile Username Flag Horsham 06 Jun 17 11.57am Send a Private Message to Username Add Username as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by bexleydave


So what's your big idea then; this should be good.

I think his point is that we could afford a new stadium development on our income, but that would mean no more Benteke/Cabaye signings and wages, and no new contract for Wilf.

 


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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 06 Jun 17 12.01pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Username

I think his point is that we could afford a new stadium development on our income, but that would mean no more Benteke/Cabaye signings and wages, and no new contract for Wilf.

And then probably no premier league football which will mean the redevelopment stops at the main stand.

I'd rather us gradually save/pay off the redevelopment in the top leave than afford it instantly and be relegated.

 


COYP

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View Username's Profile Username Flag Horsham 06 Jun 17 12.04pm Send a Private Message to Username Add Username as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

And then probably no premier league football which will mean the redevelopment stops at the main stand.

I'd rather us gradually save/pay off the redevelopment in the top leave than afford it instantly and be relegated.

Yep, I'd agree with that.

I'm not that worried about it, there are so many issues around any of the potential options that this was always going to take a huge amount of time to sort out. In general I trust Parish and co to do what they need to do.

 


Employee of the month is a good example of how someone can be both a winner and a loser at the same time.

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 06 Jun 17 5.39pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Username

I think his point is that we could afford a new stadium development on our income, but that would mean no more Benteke/Cabaye signings and wages, and no new contract for Wilf.

Not necessarily but 'yes' essentially you are right. I would be quite comfortable with our Parish announcing wage bill would be £50million a year max with the rest of the dosh going toward refurb.

A squad of 25 on an average of £2mill a year each. Doesn't sound so bad, does it?

Edited by Kermit8 (06 Jun 2017 5.40pm)

 


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Brentmiester_General Flag Front line in the battle against t... 06 Jun 17 6.27pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by bexleydave


They're investors, looking for a return on their cash. They aren't Tony Bloom's looking for a vanity project and happy to keep throwing in cash. There isn't going to be a major refurbishment because we quite simply cannot afford it on our income stream and even anything significant on the Main Stand is looking increasingly unlikely anytime soon.

Just another negative assumption by you Dave.

 


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View DutchEagleJohan's Profile DutchEagleJohan Flag Vlissingen, Netherlands 06 Jun 17 7.11pm Send a Private Message to DutchEagleJohan Add DutchEagleJohan as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Surely a planning permission for a revamp of the Arthur is as much about height as it is about distance. Admitted,the stand is quite deep, but I can not believe you would get thumbs for a planning permission to build three times the height when decreasing that depth. The steep tiering system you show looks fab, think it would make for a marvelous atmosphere when done in the right way but can not see it as a viable option to redo the AW.

Whatever happens: I hope we will stay at Selhurst!!

 

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